Balance patch suggestion


#1

In this topic i Just want to share the balance changes that i Wish the next midmonth patch Will bring.

Trinity oath->5 mana
This card is Simply too good at 4 mana, bump its cost up one mana would meke It fair.

Holy immolation->"restore 4 health to a friendly DAMAGED minion. Deal 4 damage to all enemies around It"
I really dont know why this spell can be used on a minion with full health. This makes the card more balanced while preserving its strenght.

Darkfire sacrifice->"destroy a friendly minion. The next minion you summon THIS TURN cost two less"
This is what Grinch suggests as an indirect nerf to Variax, making harder to ramp It out wich is the real problem with the card while preserving dfs main effect.

Punish-> 3 mana
Too efficient at 2 mana.

Enfeeble-> 4 mana
Same as punish

Magmar chapter.
I want to talk about magmar rotb cards. Entropic gaze and tectonic Spikes is clearly intended to be starhorns cards but they are so good that they end up beeing used by vaath.My suggestion:

Entropic gaze-> "deal 4 damage to the enemy general. The opponent draw a card"
Still strong but the fact that It doesnt replace itself anymore makes It way more balanced.

Tectonic Spikes -> "The opponent draw 3 cards. The enemy general takes 3 damage"
This is a pretty big Nerf i know but imho its necessary to nerf hyper aggro magmar wich is by far the most oppressive deck right now. Also It makes the card more starhorn specific, this general can already draw due to its bbs and other cards like blaze hound and Spelljammer. All of this sinergies with vindicator, decimus, visionar and…

Rancour-> Same stats, "whenever the opponent draws a card, this minion gets +1 atk"
Basically a mini vindicator, that has sinergy with all the cards listed above.

What do you think? Leave your comments below;)


#2

The Holy Immo and Tectonic Spikes nerfs are overdone, they would make both cards trashtier and most likely unplayable. And i honestly prefer Rancour the way it is, another card like Vindi and The fat 5-managuy whose name i forgot would be boring af. I can get behind the rest of the suggestions, but imo none of those changes is necessary at all.


#3

Punish nerf is definitely needed, but I think it’s the only one. Also, I personally think the dfs nerf is stupid, as it doesn’t even target the problem card, variax. Dfs isn’t even that oppressive in most decks, unlike variax.


#4

Yes let me pay 3 mana to give my opponent 3 cards and slap on the cheek. Great.

Rancour-> Same stats, "whenever the opponent draws a card, this minion gets +1 atk"
Basically a mini vindicator, that has sinergy with all the cards listed above.

Rancour is fine as it is. It supports the masochistic Magmar theme.


#5

Trinity Oath: I agree this card is to powerful, but I would like to keep it at 4 mana and make it heal both Generals, such that heal Zir’an stays strong.

Immo: Your change would make the card pretty unplayable. I understand people want to nerf this card, but I don’t know an elegant way to do it. Removing the healing part makes the card boring, removing damage to the General makes it to weak, etc. I like the fact that Immo makes the board matter by punishing bad positioning.

Darkfire sacrifice: I love that change, it makes ramping Variax a lot more fair.

Punish and Enfeeble: I got used to this two cards pretty quickly, I don’t think a nerf is needed.

Magmar: While I don’t like the current version of Magmar aggro, I think all your nerfs are way to heavy. Tectonic Spikes would be a fair aggro card if it wasn’t for Decimus, and Rancour is rarely a problem for me, so I wouldn’t change those cards. I don’t like the board ignoring aspects of Entropic Gaze and Decimus and would love to see the pre-RotB zoo Starhorn decks again, so I propose:

Entropic Gaze: 2 mana, All friendly minions gain +2 attack, both players draw a card.

Decimus: 4 mana 4/4, Whenever the opponent draws a card, all friendly minions gain +2 attack.


Predictions for the Balance Patch
#7

So lets begin

Trinity Oath and Holy immolation are fine they are supposed to be strong they are faction defining spells.Not every card needs to be completely fair.

DFS change is fine it is ridiculous that they can hold their ramp over several turns.Small change that doesn’t change the intent or cost of the card that is actually a good change.

Punish- turns out be fine it is just a strong removal it isn’t unfair at the cost.It just that Cass has ping which makes a little better than the intent of the card.

Enfeeble-Yeah too strong probably change in cost is necessary

Magmar cards

So your first statement proves that you didn’t understand cards.Starhorn already has draw why would gaze and spikes “be Starhorn cards alone”.The card draw aspects of gaze and Spikes is to make Vindicator /Visionar and future cards work with Vaath.Plus Magmar needed draw with dance of dreams being only infaction draw.

Gaze- Somebody is going to be unhappy with however they decide to nerf it.I want to keep as much of it original intent as possible.

I would make Entropic gaze do 2 damage and draw for each a card normally with a condition if the Magmar player was damage this turn it would do 4 damage.

Spikes-I don’t think threadstarter is ever allowed to talk about balance and be taken seriously ever because of this suggestion. Spikes is fine

A.It draws other person 3 cards
B. It damages the Magmar for 3

Both are huge downsides,Yes you can do things to mitigate those downsides but it isn’t card you can use without careful thought because of the downsides. If Decimus isnt in the game how is this card abused ? Realistically Decmius should be into 5 cost card which makes Decimus+ spikes a 8 mana play which is line Spiral Tech and Bounded lifeforce.

Rancour-nothing is wrong with Rancour if you get hit by it 95% of time you did something stupid.Magmar doesn’t have any minion movement cards.If can’t get Rancour early run away until you get something

Thankfully threadstarter isnt a dev and A clear problem with balance changes is shown here. Is Kara better? Is Sajj better?Is Kaleos better? If the threadstarter changes are made?Balance is a scale where you are trying to get both sides to be equal. Ziran is working, Starhorn is working, Lilthe is working along with Argeon, Faie, Vaath, Cass.Only 3 or 4 generals aren’t competitive. Nerfs aren’t thing need right now buffs are what needed to bring everyone inline. Vet is still trash after these changes how did you accomplish balance?


#8

I had an idea for Tectonic Spkes-

Each player draws 3 cards. For each card drawn they take 1 damage. Milled cards don’t deal damage.

This way Aggro still has insane card draw and a little bit of chip damage but when played against control it isn’t as impactful.

I think a lot of your suggestions are in the right direction but many of them are too strong of changes. Punish and Darkfire Sacrifice I agree with 100%. I am very much looking forward to the next balance patch though.


#9

Is Immo really a problem when you play it in combination with a 2drop at 6 mana? I think that scenario is pretty comparable with Makantor: 2drop + immo leaves a better body behind and ignores provoke, but Makantor only costs one card and has more reach. Holy Immolation is OP in three situations:

  1. When used on a damaged minion: this is an insane tempo swing, because you only have to play one card and you heal your minion in the process. But this situation requires setup, your minion needs to be able to reach the right spot, and the opponent can see it coming from a mile away, which makes it very hard to pull of and maybe even fair.

  2. When used in combination with low mana minions like Bloodtear or Slo: Slo + Immo is superior to Flash + Makantor because it leaves a body behind, and Bloodtear + Immo can take out minions that would otherwise survive Immo, like Sunsteel and Sojourner. Other than that, chaining low cost minions increases reach, so it’s harder to play around.

  3. When used in combination with Tiger: this let’s Lyonar do big burst out of hand, while the faction is mostly about board control.

Proposed solution: Holy Immolation can only target faction units, and Slo gets nerfed (1 mana 1/5 or something like that). This way scenario 3 doesn’t happen anymore, and scenario 2 happens less, but Immo is still a faction defining spell.


#10

I like your suggestions for darkfire sacrifice, entropic gaze, punish, and enfeeble (although I don’t have enough experience with the latter two to say that it’s necessary). They don’t change much about the card, and retains the purpose that they’re supposed to fulfill. However, I think that the rest of your changes are either overdone or could be effectively done in a different manner.

I feel the rest of you Magmar nerfs are overdone, as they support Magmar in terms of self harm and Starhorn draw that it isn’t really an issue (unless decimus combo is your main concern; in that case, probably change the mana cost of decimus to 5,with slight stat changes).

While I see why you would want holy immolation and Trinity oath to be nerfed, I believe there is a better way to go about it. By making Trinity oath draw 2 cards (at the same mana cost), it can still perform as a good draw, but not too good of one. Similarly, holy immolation could be changed to deal 3 damage instead of 4, or act as Lucent beam does (deals 2 to those around it, and 4 if a friendly unit was healed this turn) .


#12

With slo it’s still 4 mana. With blood tear it’s 5 mana.
Also it’s still 4 mana with existing board. Most of the time you play it on a minion after attacking to heal up back and deal good aoe damage.
This is not something new that pple say holy immo is broken. But I never heared makantor as a broken card. It’s a good card but not too OP.


#13

I agree those situations aren’t fair and I addressed that in my second post.

I’ve been playing Lyonar quite extensively for the past weeks, and in my experience the drop minion + cast Immo on it scenario is much more common. Factions like Songhai and Magmar don’t often leave minions alive.


#14

Trinity Oath - I’m not for or against it getting changed yet. Its obviously a good card but I don’t know if its so good it needs a nerf.

Holy Immolation - This card has been talked about so much before, that I don’t think it will ever get changed at this point. CP does makes changes to cards and if they thought this card was a problem it would have been changed months ago. Maybe there is something in the stats that players don’t see that shows that this card isn’t as OP as people think, we’ll probably never know.

Darkfire Sacrifice - Ramping out big cards is a strategy and I can see the change being reasonable enough for it to happen.

Punish - Its staying at 2 mana. Yes its cheap and yes its effective. But you got to remember it needs to hit a damaged minions which means you need to combine it with a BBS (effectively making it 3 mana) or a minion (affecting your own board) or a hit from your general (costing you health). Its also a card your opponent has to keep in mind when making trades and if he/she decides not to play around it, then its probably a risk they are willing to make.

Enfeeble - Isn’t a card I’ve ran into. So I can’t comment on the card.

Entropic Gaze and Tectonic Spikes - Both cards I think are kinda fair but its Decimus that makes them go over the top. I’ve said it in a different topic a couple of weeks back that if any of the 3 cards were to get nerfed (Gaze, Spikes or Decimus) it would be Decimus. I’ll stand by that as well and I’m kinda hoping I get Decimus from a pack soon because I think it will get nerfed at the end of the month or in the next couple of patches at least for being an non-interactive play.

Rancour - Its fine as it is currently.


#15

What are your goals with these changes? What are you trying to achieve? If we’re going to talk about making things better we need to be clear about what ‘better’ entails in your opinion.


#16

Trinity oath is very reasonable at 4 mana, Holy Immolation is very good seeing that changing it will drop Lyonar significantly and the card isnt even broken rn, Dsrkfire sacrfice change will achieve near to nothing seeing that most players summon Variaxx on the turn they use DFS. Punish is decent enough imo but i guess it does hinder tempo so maybe 3 mana would work for u all. Enfeeble should in no way be changed, 3 mana is very fair for a symmetrical effect. Your changes to both the magmar cards will do nothing, the reason they are so good is really the damage not the drawing card and tectonics is more so good for the ability to mill your opponent and really only played in decimus decks, so it will be the exact same thing. Maybe Rancour should become like that, adds a two drop to starhorn and its not trash tier really


#17

The issue with that is that anything short of a cass bbs nerf is gonna leave punish as an amazing removal option. Compared to ritual banishing on lilithe, it’s almost always better as a removal option, while costing 1 mana less.


#18

Yes it’s good to compare it with ritual. I have a dying wish deck and still play punish over ritual sacrifice.
But actually cassyva really need that card to at least try to stayl alive against those crazy magmar aggro and argeon aggro.


#19

Well, compared to lilithe, cass has way fewer problems. Similarly, I still don’t think Abyssian has a hard time sustaining, especially compared to the other factions. I mean, they have Kelaino, which is arguably the strongest healer in the game.


#20

I agree with you on the change to slo, despite many people defending it. It has single handedly shoved rock pulveriser out of meta, despite it being a solid card to begin with. It doesn’t exactly help that swamp entangler, which should be the alternative, is a steaming pile of garbage.


#21

cass has big problem of sutstain and Kelaino won’t help you if you don’t have board control. Most of the time cass need 3x2 other healers like healing mystic, and void pulse and I personally play azure herald too. Still I have tough moment against thos agro argeon because to my mind they are unbalanced.


#22

Where do you want their healing to be? I mean, they are 3rd in terms of healing in terms of faction, and kelaino doesn’t need board control, since you can heal off each creep. Also, abyssian does have access to pulse and spectral blade, as well as that one bad card I can’t remember.