Attempting Balance Changes


#1

Heyo all :slight_smile: It is a desire of mine to one day be able to be part of a balance team. I love numbers and digging deep into a formula to find their heart (could work with them all day). As such, I thought it would be fitting to try my own hand what my own suggestions of balance, leaving other forum readers the opportunity to give their opinion about my ability to balance.

Each card will have a poll as to if you think the changes/revisions to the card is fair or not, please answer truthfully. If you think a card change I would suggest to one or more cards is unfair, please explain your reasons why objectively, not with opinion.

Additionally, if willing, please place a score of how I did (how many you thought were fair out of how many you voted on). Currently, there are 20 polls, excluding the Vanar poll.

Anything deemed rude or unnecessary will be ignored by me.

Thanks :slight_smile:

[details=Lyonar]Slo - From 0 mana to 1 mana
Reason: Being able to actually gain mana on an already very useful battlepet at 1/4 with provoke is immense. Currently 1 of only 2 zero mana minions in the game, with the other (Vet’s Rae) rarely seeing use. Makes HI combo require 5 or actually use a minion already on board at 4.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Scintilla - From 3 mana 3/4 body to 3 mana 3/3 body
Reason: Scintilla already (and still will) provide, my minimum, a 6 point relevancy into the game, with an effect that can snowball pretty strongly. For how much this effect can bring into the game as a 3 mana is good, and still relevant. Reducing to 3 health allows for a more manageable time for opponent’s to answer this strong card.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Holy Immolation - Change to "Restore 4 health to a damaged friendly minion…etc. etc."
Reason: Someone else’s suggestion. Personally, HI is what it is and I’m okay with dealing with it as it stands, but the suggestion is still a fair one as I see it. If it was ever to be changed, I think this would be the best approach to it. For whoever’s idea this was, feel free to mention it so I can credit you :slight_smile:

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Excelsious - From 8 mana, 6/6 body + effect to 7, 7/7 body + effect maybe without celerity
Reason: It’s slow and it’s effect isn’t more-or-less immediate, and may be dispelled to 6/6, a huge let down for investing 8 mana. Removing celerity to bring it out sooner could be a fair balance. Odds are for how hard it’ll hit anyway, you’ll still be dead and celerity will be meaningless. Let a finishing minion do it’s job (sincerely, a lyonar disliker :wink:)

[poll name=poll4 public=true]

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced
    [/poll][/details]

[details=Songhai]Ace - Add “cannot move” to text
Reasons: I don’t think this needs an explanation, as Ace is knowingly one of the worst battle pets available right now.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Shadow Waltz
Change - Lower cost of all Backstab minions in your action bar and adds Backstab (+1) to them.
Reasons: Currently anti-synergistic. Changing it to backstab keeps in pace with synergy, fits theme, and isn’t OP since this change would NOT include a +1/+1 buff. This would be more difficult from the developer/programming standpoint than other balance suggestions

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Eight Gates
Change - Spells you cast that deal damage deal +1 damage. NOTE: This is a permanent effect.
Reasons: I myself would be a bit hesitant on this, but we can still consider: a Songhai player would only get up to 3 of these in a deck, commiting alcuin’s to it would/will lead to a very vulnerable board. I reiterate, I’d be very hesitant about this, but currently Eight Gates is pretty worthless, and it’d at least add a sense of urgency into the fight. At the least, it’s a unique concept.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Jade Monk - From 4/3 body to 3/4 body, changing effect to whenever this minion deals damage, deal 1 damage to a random enemy minion (originally takes damage).
Reasons: This card blows imo, but at least now it synergizes with IF and/or an Obscuring blows combo.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Widowmaker - From 3 mana, 2/3 body to 2 mana, 2/2 body
Reasons: Currently Ki beholder outshines widowmaker. Going to 2 mana would offer a more range-centric build focus, makes widowmaker relevant again, but still makes it very fair to answer to. This card is just unused with the likes of Ki beholder filling in the same mana space and no effect.

[poll name=poll9 public=true]

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced
    [/poll][/details]

[details=Vetruvian]Orb Weaver: From 2/2 body to 2/3 or 3/2 body
Reasons: Currently only offers 4 points or (generally) 2 attacks on board as a 3 mana. 2/3 or 3/2 would give it some relevancy and attention.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Aymara Healer - From 6 mana, 5/5 body and 5/5 effect to 6 mana, 5/5 body and 4/4 effect or 6 mana, 6/6 body and 3/3 effect
Reasons: I know Vets, you guys are struggling and this card is super vital, but let’s admit it, this card is strong. Keeping it’s 5/5 body keeps it’s relevance on board even upon dispel, and only touches a small tad on it’s huge game swinging ability.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Oserix - From 7 mana, 8/6 body to 6 mana, 7/5 body without flying
Reasons: It’s a dog. Dogs don’t fly. Additionally, Autarch’s Gift does what Oserix wants to anyway. Oserix just provides a strong body, can be dispelled (fair as it’s body is good) and allows it the potential to be played, as it’s effect isn’t as, well, effective, as many other late game minions. (Note, this card seems hard to balance, and like eight gates, is probably one of my more hesitant changes I’d do)

[poll name=poll12 public=true]

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced
    [/poll][/details]

[details=Abyssian]
Void Pulse - From 2 damage, 3 healing to 2 damage, 2 healing
Reasons: (1) Makes it seem more like a life steal effect, (2) high value card, still good value at 2 dmg, 2 healing

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Punish - From 2 mana to 3 mana
Reasons: I’m putting burden on the opposers. If you think this isn’t fair, explain why.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Nightsorrow Assassin - From 3 mana, 2/1 body to 3 mana, 3/1 or 4/1 body
Reasons: This is the weakest assassin I’ve ever seen. At least a 3/1.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Kelaino - From 2/5 body to 2/4 body
Reasons: See Lyonar’s Scintilla. Dear Abyssian players, go ahead keep your stupid ability, but allow us just the opportunity to deal with it better. Fair? :smile: #notsalty haha. Bias aside, I am looking at being objective.

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced

0 voters

Variax - From 8 mana 8/8 body back to 7 mana 7/7 body with BBS modification.
Reasons: I’m not putting this up for a poll unless people are really interested to see what people would have to say. I expressed my reasoning in the Duelyst 1.80 patch notes thread. Variax is too controversial, so please refrain from heavy discussion on the card.[/details]

Magmar

Dance of Memes, oops, Dreams :slight_smile: - Changed to 2 mana, "Whenever this minion dies, draw 2 cards"
Reasons: Makes it dispellable, suits Starhorns BBS theme, and has some effectiveness. Having a card whose purpose is to draw a card leads to the logic of, “well, why not just have drawn the other card in the first place?” Drawing two is necessary for a spell whose sole function is only drawing. Making it 2 mana assists in keeping balance, as 1 mana for 2 cards is too nice.

[poll name=poll17 public=true]
  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced
[/ [poll ]

Gro - From 2 mana, 2/4 body to 2 mana, 2/3 body
Reasons: I admit some bias, but I hope Magmar players also admit some bias in how good this sits at 2/4. If this is played P1T1 and can’t be answered immediately, the value of and amount of attention/resources that this card draws is unfit towards a 2 mana card.

[poll name=poll18 public=true]
  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced
[/ [poll ]

Thumping Wave - From 3 mana, 5 atk + 3/3 kin to 3 mana, 3 atk, 3/3 kin
Reasons: Sacrifice some attack for how much flexibility this card provides Magmar players. Bias inputted: I don’t have an issue with this card, but I also think their is no reason or need for Magmar players to be having a card like this in the first place.

[poll name=poll19 public=true]
  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced
[/ [poll ]

Drogon - Modify effect and/or body
Reasons: See Lyonar Scintilla. Additionally or alternatively, tell me why you think it’s fair as it stand.

[poll name=poll20 public=true]

  • This is fair/balanced
  • This isn’t fair/balanced
    [/poll][/details]

[details=Vanar]Overall, I find everything in Vanar is more-or-less pretty well balanced. Any cards (buffs or nerfs) that I can see being argued are: Concealing Shroud, Frigid Corona, Enfeeble, and Myriad. But personally, nothing is too majorly off.

[poll name=poll21 public=true]
  • I agree with this.
  • I disagree with this.
[/ [poll ]

This got a LOT more votes than I expected. Thank you to everyone who participated! The two I am most surprised by that were turned down were Widowmaker and Drogon. I will place my explanation about Drogon below, but for anyone who voted against Widowmaker, I’d greatly appreciate the feedback as to why you were against it. Thank you to everyone again!

[details=Drogon Explanation]Verbally:
-On the highest end of 4 mana card stats
-A (typically) immediate effect

By the numbers:
Drogon is 4 mana, so Vaath will likely have used BBS at least once prior to playing Drogon. Drogon will also be usually be played on BBS activation turn. The Vaath player has information advantage (knowing they have and when they play Drogon) and will be certain to face for it.

Assuming Drogon is played on Vaath’s 2nd BBS (when Vaath has 3 atk):
Vaath becomes 8 to most general’s 2 attack. This provides an immediate 6 pt swing. Already show me another 4 mana minion that accomplishes this. Providing a large swing and the high end 4 mana body stats set it up for a 6 swing and 5 dmg body to address. An immediate 11 pt relevancy onto the board.

What other 4 mana minion provides this amount of immediate swing and stat body?[/details]


Attempting Balance Changes 2
#2

It is unclear as to whether we are voting that the card is fair or your revision is fair.

Also, I misclicked my Vanar vote, I was trying to reply :slight_smile:


#3

Meant changes/revisions to the card are fair. Thanks :slight_smile:

Edited this to say that I edited the OP.


#4

Most of my votes are no, simply because although your changes would probably be fine, they’re unnecessary. Some of the buffs and nerfs are nice but for the most part you’re balancing cards that are fine as they are, which can lead to a surprisingly large shift in meta for entire factions, especially when you modify staples.

For example, Aymara Healer. Extremely strong card, especially compared to other 6 drops. In a vacuum, this thing needs a nerf hard. But Vetruvian has too many weak cards, and Aymara makes up for that. Nerf Aymara or Falcius and Vetruvian ends up in the craphole. It’s always been a relatively weak faction relying on a choice few extremely strong cards.

This can go for other factions too, for a lesser scale. Is Gro too strong for it’s mana cost? Maybe, but it’s only run in specific deck types, and those decks types don’t need a nerf whatsoever. Same goes for other cards.


#5

I’d be quoting a large bulk, so I’ll just avoid quoting altogether haha.

I agree that it would cause shifts, but I think any shifts that would be made would largely be acceptable by both played factions and opposing factions (from player standpoint).

For the Aymara example, if other 6 drops were found to have arguably similar value, this would ideally lead to more versatile and creative decks. Nerfing 1 6 mana card would require an alternative replacement; my Oserix revision providing that (though i do mention it’s difficulty and my own skepticism of my own change).

Vetruvian is quite unique in that I think it is the most unevenly power-distrubuted faction out of them all. Adjusting other cards to bring them up to the level of faction cards would be the best approach that I would see on it.

I see no problem with offering more options and a potential meta shift, as some dislike where it stands anyways (I am completely neutral on the meta). I think these changes would not cause too drastic of a meta shift in any direction to suddenly one or two factions/generals completely outclassing others.


#6

For the most part these changes are meh, but they would ruin Vetruvian. Your Oserix change still makes the card pretty hard to play, much less being of similar value to Aymara. There’s no reason to cut one of Vetruvian’s only big strengths


#7

Your Eight Gates proposal is awful. It completely invalidates Crescent Spear, which is already a good card by making it cost less, trigger a spell cast, and permanent.


#8

that permanent buff to spell damage for songhai is like asking to be one turn killed from 25 hp every game. thats plain horrible and you even consider it with alcuin to a total of +6 damage to phenix fire for a total of 9.

what’s the idea behind shadow waltz nerf?
no one plays it as is, atleast i haven’t seen it played once in ~5 months. if anything it needs a buff to encourage people play backstub minions for a change.

most other changes seem horribly biased as well. aymara feels quite weak for a 6 drop, stats aren’t impressive for a 6 drop the effect is situational and only heal the faction has.
the holly immulation nerf plain makes the card unplayable. yet no proposal to nerf revenants or whatever other abyssian cards that are way stronger. (actually suggest to buff variax instead…)

the drogo nerf is a bad one too. only thing it does is buff vaath attack. you could dispell him to weaken the effect or just kite him, he can’t play siluette tracer and the one shot combo, well maybe only if he uses 2 flash reincarnations along with it, still would be a 8 mana play with 5 cards needed to execute from hand.


#9

Orb Weaver would be BUSTED if for 3 mana it made 2 2/3s or 2 3/2s. Dunno how 2/3 of people voted balanced there, but no…


#10

Why do we have to nerf everything into the ground? Like seriously.

Also, I’m not sure how you think the change to Aymara Healer would be even remotely okay. It’s a card that has become so slow that it isn’t even a core Vet card anymore. 6 mana minions occupy a sweet spot where they have to force high pressure plays, because they eat up 2/3s of a turn to play. Klaxon and Aymara Healer are parallel Dying Wish + Provoke fatties that solely exist to occupy that sweet spot- and Klaxon isn’t played over Spectral Revenant BECAUSE it’s so slow- and now similarly, Aymara Healers are cut for Nimbus and Nosh-Rak because they all fight each other for slots.

Orb Weaver also doesn’t need to be changed in terms of body, but just in terms of effect. Vet really doesn’t need to swarm- it’s even pretty stupid (as a Vet main) that Vet swarms in the first place. Zirix’s BBS displays the idea that Vet gets a better token body, because Vet wants to win a material war- as opposed to taking over the game with beatstick spam. Iron Dervishes are uniquely easy for Vet to buff, because Vet wants to play more vertically than horizontally.

The Devs already made the best change to Variax- and even though I think that DFS should change, the point of the Variax change is make it a doomsday weapon- something nobody is really lacking, since a DFS Variax play still makes it a 6 drop.

The Oserix change is also super silly. Oserix could literally just become a 6 drop with no other changes, and it really wouldn’t change the issues that the card has. It isn’t something that can just get a slapdash fix. Oserix is weak because A: Vet doesn’t have something similar to Consuming Rebirth. B: Vet’s artifacts are strong, but incoherent with that sortof effect, and C: Oserix doesn’t effect the game on the turn you play it- which for a 6 or 7 drop is damnably bad. The card has a massive opportunity cost, and the swing value is typically not so great. Oserix is just out of touch with the current design- and it’s really cool that Oserix flies (because Airforce is one of Vet’s themes.)

Scintilla doesn’t need to be worse, Excelsious doesn’t need to be better. Lyonar is in a uniquely good place in terms of balance. Holy Immolation is a clumsy spell, and an errata to make it a little clumsier is welcome, but generally the only issue that pops up with Lyonar is that the factions that struggle with Lyonar either aren’t playing tech, or are just generally underpowered.

Lastly, how is Vanar perfectly balanced? You’ve read Concealing Shroud and Enfeeble right? Faie is literally the only general who gets so far ahead so often that they can reliably play Meltdown as a win condition.


#11

You are extremely right! Did not think about it. Eight Gates was one of the ones I stated as being hesitant on my revision, so I’m not too heartbroken about it. Thank you!

You provide literally 0 rationalization on this, merely emotion. Care to explain how it would be busted? Care to explain to me how something like a 1 pt stat buff to Orb Weaver would bust it compared to the value of other 3 mana cards?

Isgopet brought up valid points to it as well. It was an approach to try to find a way to make an unused card usable. I agree with both you and @isgopet

I didn’t want to propose a backstab (2), but even if I did, it at least synergizes compares to being anti-synergistic to Songhai. Maybe drop 1 mana cost, backstab (+1) and draw a card? Would suit a lot better. Thoughts?

Verbally:
-On the highest end of 4 mana card stats
-A (typically) immediate effect

By the numbers:
Drogon is 4 mana, so Vaath will likely have used BBS at least once prior to playing Drogon. Drogon will also be usually be played on BBS activation turn. The Vaath player has information advantage (knowing they have and when they play Drogon) and will be certain to face for it.

Assuming Drogon is played on Vaath’s 2nd BBS (when Vaath has 3 atk):
Vaath becomes 8 to most general’s 2 attack. This provides an immediate 6 pt swing. Already show me another 4 mana minion that accomplishes this. Providing a large swing and the high end 4 mana body stats set it up for a 6 swing and 5 dmg body to address. An immediate 11 pt relevancy onto the board.

What other 4 mana minion provides this amount of immediate swing and stat body?

I’m going to address this in conjunction with @paralykeet, so see my reply to them (him/her?) below.


#12

Most of these changes are fair and balanced, bringing cards in line with similarly costed alternatives. Unfortunately, this is boring.

Cards like Aymara Healer make the game exciting, when you play them it feels awesome, and even playing against them is interesting. They are the Aces of Duelyst (or the Queens if you prefer a chess analogy).

From a game design perspective, it’s much more fun to counter overpowered stuff with overpowered stuff.


#13

Did not consider this concept. Thank you :slight_smile:


#14

My personal aim wasn’t in nerfing everything to the ground but in achieving balance, as the more subjectively equaled value cards are of the same mana cost, the more playability and creativity players can have with decks that actually have potential to work, rather than ending up as memes.

With that, I really appreciate a Vet main perspective. From my viewpoint, many cards in Vet are currently either strong and deemed necessary, or useless and unplayable. This returns back to my intention.

You are very right with Aymara Healer though in terms of it’s duty and current situation of being too slow. Points that I never gave to consideration to. I don’t main Vet by any means, but I can relate with my experiences with the Scientist (which personally, I think as a 5 mana, 5/5 or 4/5 body would be nice for the same reason).

Your points here are probably the most insightful for me in thinking past just numbers. Thank you for this!

Was workin with what I had :smile:

Assuming this means increasingly large bodies as opposed to increasing amount of smaller ones?

I agree, but it was my attempt. Airforce is a Vet theme, but stick it to things that have wings. Heck, give Oserix wings haha.

See my reply above to @raviel1234 about Drogon (I can scribble numbers here for you if you’d like)

I’ve also acknowledged that if people were suggesting changes to Vanar, those 2 consist of what changes might be made. This part feels like you got a little amped up after going through what I had.


Personally, I would like Vetruvian to have the opportunity of being more flexible in what it can have, rather than being stuck with required cards to make it run. I considered Aymara fitting that before, but not being a Vet player, wouldn’t have thought about the issue in having to choose late game minions. For this again, I wanted to thank you for your input. Hopefully you can see my aim in what I was trying to suggest. Thanks again! :slight_smile:


#15

I go through your suggestions in a relatively quick fashion because I’ve been drinking, its past 4am and I’m lazy.

[details=Thoughts]Slo - Fair, being 0 mana with 5 stats and an effect seems to have been perhaps too good and with HI it provides maybe too much of a tempo swing with the battle pet downside not being enough to justify the 0 mana.

Scintilla - Unfair, its a strong effect but its not a minion that I see troubling people nor is the effect good enough on a weaker bodied minion. There is synergy with the effect but it requires setup (or a lot of mana) to do so.

Holy Immolation - Unfair, its probably one of the most talked about cards but its on the fair side of the power level currently.

Excelsious - Fair (but not a good enough change), although I think it would be still too slow for most decks and why would you play your suggested change over Elyx Stormblade which arguable has a better effect and comes out a turn earlier for the same baseline stats.

Ace - Fair, Ranged battle pets are at a disadvantage by having to work as the same as normal battle pets.

Shadow Waltz - Fair, but I think it wouldn’t see play anyway.

Eight Gates - Unfair, permanent effect would make it far too good.

Jade Monk - Fair, but still think it won’t see much play.

Widowmaker - Unfair, would make the Songhai combo with Inner Focus come out a turn earlier.

Orb Weaver - Fair, it doesn’t really see play now and giving an extra stat per body may see it get played. However, it may too good so maybe only giving one body an extra stat could be fairer.

Aymara Healer - Unfair, its a strong card as it is now and making it weaker would make Vet as a faction weaker overall which is already pretty much the weakness one as of now.

Oserix - Unfair, its a bad card now and making it weaker (by removing flying) will still make it a bad card even at a lower cost.

Void Pulse - Unfair, personally I think its a fair card as it is now.

Punish - Unfair, I’m against the majority but it effectively already costs 3 mana (card plus BSS), or if you using a minion you are affecting your own board or if you using your general its costing you health. Sometimes your opponent won’t play around it, but its likely a risk their are willing to take or want to bait it out.

Nightsorrow Assassin - Unfair, its already going to go 1 for 1 trading minimum due to the opening gambit and giving it a higher attack could make it too aggressive overall.

Kelaino - Fair, good positioning will still keep it safe and heal for a decent amount.

Variax - Depends on the BBS modification.

Dance of dreams - Fair, but not sure the change would make it see play.

Gro - Unfair, you can give yourself time to play around/against it because of the battle pet mechanic. Plus Magmar needs decent minions if the grow mechanic will ever be a thing.

Thumping wave - Fair, it acts as removal and a finisher so toning down the attack for flexibility seems fine.

Drogon - Unfair, its a 4 mana card but its not really something you want to play on 4 mana since ideally you’ll want to use the BBS on the same turn.

Vanar - There could be changes but overall I agree its in a good spot.

I may want to change my thoughts on this later after sleeping and having a better read but those are my thoughts for now.[/details]


#16

Why would you not put Trinity Oath in the nerf list?


#17

I forgot about it when I was scanning through the entire deck list :sweat_smile:


#18

Just commenting on the Drogon.

The main problem with it is staying power. At 4 health, it’s very easily removed, especially when played off-curve (in order to make use of the ability). Also your analysis is a bit misleading. The first time you play it, at 5 mana, you have not been able to use your BBS yet and so the bonus is +4. Good, but not game-breaking by any means. At 7 mana, the next time you’d be able to activate the ability, the +6 effect is pretty mediocre compared to just using Makantor or Thumpidator. Also, Dioltas is probably a better 4-drop in general. Or decimus if you’re using Starcheese strats.


#19

Drogon is essentially a 5 mana play, you are not going to play it for tempo. I actually often played it with first bbs to clear a provoke or burst the opponent a little if had no better play.

In the hypothetical study case. If vaath had 3 attack and activated bbs again he would have 4 attack, drogon just added 4 more for just 1 turn, an artefact admantite claws could do the same and if you arent losing in tempo too bad could allow maybe 2 attacks on face with that damage before breaking. Not sure what was the 6 point swing, unless you already count drogo a 5 mana minion in which case it needs to be compared with 5 mana minions.

I wouldn’t call a 5/4 a hight end body. It dies to holly immolation, makantor, falcius. Just 2 2 attack minions or 1 4 attack minion. Vanar could dispell/transform it or something like dancing blades + alchemist, sunsteel defender could kill it as well or some hearth sister + bbs + something combo, songhai could backstub it with a katara, use the +2 attack to general and minion spell, to trade some cheaper minion into it and deal 4 damage to an other target. Abyssians have their ways of killing it instantly as well i don’t play abyssians so don’t have particular combos in mind. As magmar you can’t afford to play it on backline early game and in late game it becomes your win condition, you aren’t going to play it at all unless it gives you lethal that turn.

Not sure how you calculate those relevancy points but here is a list of other 4 drops i consider as good or better:

  1. Spelljammer - has a better body 3/5, not as easy to remove and can attack 3 times potentially, also gives draw to you and the opponent (making him hesistate even more about killing it)
  2. 4 winds magi - a 4/4 , provides some face damage and healing for every spell used, with time generates good value and songhai can afford to play it in the backline so doesn’t just die to anything.
  3. dioltas - 5/3 when dies you get a 0/10 provoke that can be buffed, just big pile of stats that is hard to deal with.
  4. kelaino - just heal 3+ every turn(including opponent turns), cose why not. 2/5 also is better than 5/4 as it isn’t going to die easily. And can be played at the backline.
  5. abyssal juggernaut - usually atleast 5/5 when played, gets buffed with time, only reliably dies to dispell or hard removal. can get to 10/10 or more.
  6. sunriser - basically walking 3/4 holly immolation not particularly easy to remove as it clears big chunk of board when played and as long as it is alive the effect can be triggered again.
  7. sleet dasher - 3/6 again better stats, if comboed with boundless courage can clear the whole opponent’s board and maybe even deal 5 face damage while at it.
  8. decimus - 4/4 can be played on backline and does nice damage every turn untill dealt with. Can be comboed for burst damage.

#20

7 mana, you were looking as p2, i was as p1. Still, valid point. This also ignores crypto’s however, which might be suited to work with the Drogon effect. (Apart from crypto, again, your point is still valid.) Dioltas is a good comparison.

At 7 mana, the cards you compare Drogon with by nature cost more mana and/or are considered staple/OP/strong standards. This should say something about Drogon if the cards that are brought up in discussion with it are cards like Makantor, thumpidator and decimus.