Do you know what is worst? If your minion transformed into battlepet that has celerity (2/5 stats) i forgot the name.
It’s 8 dmg to the face.
Aspect Of Shimzar Must Be 4 Mana
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I actually agree with this completely - thunderhorn has a wonderful new mechanic. It’s just that it only sees play in tandem with uncontrollable movements
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thunderhorn also sees play as a counter to magmar, it is really good as a sideboard option in something like obelysk vet.
Same goes for zendo, or any card that takes control on uncontrollable movement, yet nerfing thunder will hurt every deck.
When the actual faction that run it into oblivion is only vanar - nerf shimzar and problem solved.
With the Backstab (2) Spellsword you would have been able to clear Thunderhorn. Replace Gorehorn with Mantra or Spiral technique and you got a win on your hands. Also your math is a bit off. You already expect the second hit from Thunderhorn, a general attack and a war bird, effectively 8 life you still had to play around with.
Only because you feeded a Basilysk and lost a Hamon to the Thunder+Aspect combo doesn’t mean it has to be nerfed. Even if your opponent had used Aspect of the Ravager to clear your Hamon you would have started your turn with nothing on board,13-15 life and either a 5 drop or a 4 drop in your face. You had good chances to kill your opponent with the right spells at 10 life but your hand didn’t support it.
As someone who likes to play Lilith Swarm I know how oppressive the Thunderhorn combo can really be but I don’t think it has to be nerfed. It is 2 Cards with 6 mana in a faction with nearly no staple minions in the 3-5 mana range. He got lucky to assemble the combo in his 4 turns he was in the game too.
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I think Thunderhorn is the real issue. The effect (especially in combination with the AotS and Thumping) counters entire archetypes by itself, as a neutral. With the minion in the game as it is now there is no reason at all to play something like Swarm Lilithe (my favorite) and players are punished HARD for playing pets- a minion type that a large part of an entire (and extremely important) expan was full of. The card is oppressive as a whole- it kills archetypes, it’s half of a skill-less high power combo, kills off pets as an option and from the point of view of CPG it is limiting design and I would have to imagine they know this…and honestly I do think we’ll see some sort of Thunderhorn nerf- probably in the form of a mana increase, making it basically a Vanar minion.
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AoS is not the problem like evrybody said. Thunderhorns effect should work like frenzy, only when it attacks and I hope they’ll change that soon.
swarm lilithe has won tournaments and gotten to s-1 in this meta, it is definately still completely viable at the highest level.
The only pet that has stopped seeing play as a result of thunderhorn is gro, pax and ooz are still played, you just have to be aware of when not to play them.
thunderhorn is a card that requires good positioning in order to beat, something that the comunity has asked cpg to add for ages, and now that it is here, you want it nerfed? I agree that aspect + thunderhorn is a bit obnoxious, but it is still very possible to play around it.
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While fringe plays, also Xho was playable in Spellhai, Rex in Pokemon Starhorn (which as a whole is also unplayable because of Thunderhorn), Gor in Sarlac/Echo Abyss and the Lyonar 3/3 (forgot the name) in Healyonar.
So that’s 5/7 of the playable pets nerfed into unplayability (or maybe 5/8 if you count Rae, which can still be played with some Exhuming Sand combos). And that’s not even counting all the previously playable pet-based spells.
Tldr: it’s not about pets being good, it’s about (most of) them being playable in some decks.
the only time I saw any pet outside of pax, ooz and gro in constructed pre-UP was in meme decks, and while it is unfortunate that meme decks are not as viable as they were the game is not balanced around memes.
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I don’t remember ant deck that ran pets to the point of running up the ladder becuase of the pets.
Most of pets are useless as they are, so please - saying that pets are unplayable due to a card that counters some of the most disgusting decks on ladder (vaath someone? Can we plaes nerf the shit out of lavaslasher?).
Pets are mostly unplayable becuase of their nature.
Which leads us to the conclusion - aos is a problem.
Another hard removel on top of harder removels that works well with thunder., nerf this and vanar player (including me) will have to find another way to play around heavy cards.
We are at the point when cpg is creating one of the most amazing cards the game has ever seen and people complain becuase it’s hard to play around - that’s why we can’t have nice things.
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This is just so true. I honestly don’t get this community sometimes. We’ve been asking for effects like this for ages and now that we got them everybody complains about it. I mean what’s the big deal about that combo anyway? It’s a potential 4 damage AOE combo that requires 2 cards, 6 mana and can be played around. And that in a faction that can simply spent 5 mana for a 3 damage AOE that’s more reliable and requires only one card. The only consequence of nerfing Aspect or Thunderhorn would be that Vanar goes back to Aspect of the Ravager + Frostburn as their removal choices, both of which are stronger individually and can’t be played around. Would you really like this more? Just watch your positioning a little when playing Vanar and take advantage of the fact that they play that combo instead of Frostburn, might save you from losing your entire board.
I really don’t wanna see a change to either AOS or Thunderhorn, the latter even less than the former.
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This is exactly why devs ignore suggestions and opinions on balance in game etc. This community loves two things. 1. To complain and suggest half-ass solutions. 2. To ask for things then instantly regret it when they lose a match against what they wanted.
vanar is the queen of stall,removal and ramp…its seen everywhere but just because its in a ramp deck it should be up by 4… dont put this in a faction that boom 9 mana clears and put two threats on board with which is usually 4/5 and 5/5 that grows
right, but 0 good positioning in order to play the card itself. Playing TH gives that player an advantage that has nothing to with positioning or any other “good” play and with a single minion out of place on the other side equals board clear.
I want more cards that require more attention to the board too but playing a single minion that can dictate entirely what the opposing player does just for existing isn’t it. If TH is played vs an opponent with nothing on board that player probably can’t summon without first removing TH and if that goes more than 1 turn it’s GG.
TH does take skill to play around, no doubt. But cards should take skill to play also.
the skill in playing thunderhorn is playing it in such a way that your opponent has to play into it and give it value, the skill in playing around thunderhorn is playing in such a way that you deny it from getting value. A good example of what I mean (I think) would be this game that I played vs roken in the duelyst melee https://play.duelyst.com/replay?replayId=-Kyl3EgMPprIeSdsTO4P if you want to know what my deck looked like then here it is https://imgur.com/zLNkPcw
Positioning should matter, Thunderhorn is just pushed too hard. And, in the case of Vanar, a big issue is that the opponent can actually punish you even if you position well. Positioning in such a way that the opponent can’t kite a Battle Pet into an abusive position is restrictive to too far a degree (imo). The traditional counter to things like Makantor is to set things up in a diagonal line but you can’t even do thát with Thunderhorn. If Thunderhorn only triggered on attacks or didn’t chain through Generals I suspect almost all of us would be cheering the effect.
Suggesting the community is being unreasonable by complaining about Thunderhorn seems akin to mocking someone who’s getting drowned for complaining they were thirsty.
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I think you missed a big part of my argument- TH dictates the play of the opponent just for existing and can punish you even if you play around it correctly, by being part of a combo or by forcing the opponent to play things out of place. Putting a minion on the board should not be the skill level required to get the level of value you get from TH.
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Only in vanar deck thanks to aos, so maybe aos is the problem?
of course it dictates the way you can play around it, otherwise it would take no skill to beat it, what do you want from the card? as for it not needing any skill to play, you are just wrong there, in order to get the most value from it you can’t just plop it on the board randomly, more so than any other midrange minion I can think of, flamewreath is the only one that you could argue takes more skill. The combos that it is part of can be annoying, but it is still possible to predict and play around them.
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