Duelyst Forums

Are bloodbound spells not balanced?

#1

Hello everyone!
I was wondering if you guys think BBS are balanced.
I think they are definitively NOT, as for instance I never see the new Vanar general on ladder (currently rank 3) and most generals are never played unless with a very specific archetype.
I think it’s clear that it’s much harder to pull value from Kaleos or Kara BBS than from Faie or Vaath BBS.

Here’s the list of the BBS I consider not as strong as others (and how they could be tweaked):

Brome BBS is way too situational as the crestfallen has too low stats, not to mention that the positioning is usually awkward as you can’t spawn it if there is something in front of you. I think we should be able to choose between behind or in front of you for the spawn location, or even up/down/front/behind. The choice with the spawn position would make up for the poor stats and reinforce synergies with empyrean congregation/Surgeforger much easier to pull off.

Shidai BBS is good only to trigger “on spell cast” stuff. The values it gives is usually very low as it’s 100% random. Sometimes you need a backstab to get lethal but you get some positioning spell. Shidai is very interesting (besides the raw approach of playing so many cards every turn) but it’s hard to really make her competitive. Idea: give a choice between 2 random cards. It’ll allow much more interesting decks to be played with Shidai instead of just mantra/arcanysts.

Ragnora BBS is both really good and really weak. Decks with pings (Tempest/Cassyva/Flamewreath/Panddo/Gotatsu/Death Grip …) just roll on ragnora, while others can’t do much as without any board setup and a 2 card combo at 7 mana you can deal 15 damage out of the blue with a mere morin khur, BBS and fortitude. Celerity is a feature that’s abused by lots of decks as a few buffs on a celerity minion is usually equivalent to lethal. I believe Ragnora is just too much all or nothing, and I think that a good solution would be to change the ripper to something like a veteran silithar and with an extra movement space.

Kara BBS is great but doesn’t have enough support. Can’t think of anything to make it better without it becoming OP…

Finally, Ilena BBS is incredibly disappointing. The concept seems fair enough but there is simply not enough support for stun. You should be able to stun your own minions too.

Here’s a little poll: Who are the BBS that are UNDERPOWERED and should be buffed? Please explain why too !

  • Argeon Highmayne
  • Zir’an Sunforge
  • Brome Warcrest
  • Kaleos Xaan
  • Reva Eventide
  • Shidai Stormblossom
  • Zirix Starstrider
  • Scioness Sajj
  • Ciphyron Ascendant
  • Lilithe Blightchaser
  • Cassyva Soulreaper
  • Maehv Skinsolder
  • Vaath the Immortal
  • Starhorn the Seeker
  • Ragnora the Relentless
  • Faie Bloodwing
  • Kara Winterblade
  • Ilena Cryobyte

0 voters

Show results

Tl;dr
BBS aren’t fair as some generals are never played and some BBS should be tweaked, what do you propose?

1 Like
#2

The bold part is pretty much the point of different Generals and their BBS. To support and enable different playstyles within a faction. Every faction has a General with a more universally useful BBS while the other 2 Generals are designed towards specific archetypes.

Because of this it’s also wrong to judge a BBS in a vacuum. Yes Faies 2 damage as a standalone spell is better than Karas. But in the right deck Karas BBS can produce value that is leagues about what Faie ever could hope to accomplish. Same can be said for most Generals. Ilena and Sajj are the sad exceptions as far as i am concerned, not because their BBS are bad, but because there is so little support for them.

5 Likes
#3

Why do people think vaath and Faie’s bbs are underpowered? explain yourself please!

2 Likes
#4

Ragnora’s eggs would have much less either/or if they removed celerity and added “can move 1 extra space”.

#5

The BBS’ are fine. The only reason one sees more Generals than the other is simply because certain BBS’ synergise better than others. Shidai works great with spellproc decks, Lilithe works great with Swarm.

If a General sees less play it is because for that archetype there is a better alternative or, like Ilena, they lack the proper support to make them viable/competitive. Imho it is not the BBS’ that are lacking for the most part, but rather the toolset that the BBS’ are supposed to synergise with.

1 Like
#6

Ilena needs a buff but I don’t know what, since I think unlimited range or hitting generals might be too strong.

Other than that I’m fine with every other BBS, some just need more support. I also voted for Shidai however, since I would far prefer it if her BBS didn’t have such a crazy RNG component. If it were up to me I’d also nerf Maehv’s bbs (maybe make it a 3/3 spawned on the same space) but make it deal no damage, but that’s just preference.

1 Like
#7

My wish is some serious ziran support…all she needs is a serious lategamefinisher

tempo heal is easyly countered by not engaging and if you go for bond brome is just better with his BBs,afterblaze and ironcliffe heart.

#8

I would go out on a limb and say that it’s sarcasm. But you never know.

#9

I actually like Ilena’s current BBS with the current cards. Its not crazy powerful, but it is fun when you have the right deck for her. Since you can perma stun in the late game an enemy minion with the BBS until you have an answer. Which is probably annoying for the opponent, but its the risk you take whenever you play anything close to her. Plus with Hydrogarm you can stall long enough to turn around a bad situation and win.

I think allowing her to stun her own minions to enable Essence Sculpt to copy your own minions could be a good start (mentioned in opening post). Then it could allow for other cards to be made where you can get benefits by stunning your own minions, like buffs, extra card draw, whenever this minion is stunned summon a copy nearby or whatever else can be thought up. Stunning the general would be too OP, since it would shut down pretty most artifact/solo general style archetypes by herself, not that there are many to begin with.

As for the poll itself I’m not sure which I would change, if any. My first reaction was Brome but I haven’t used him yet. So it would be something based off other people’s thoughts and not my own. I would want to play him myself before saying that his BBS needs changing or not. So I guess I’m fine with them all currently.

1 Like
#10

Why not a 1 dmg ping and stun? offers similar to cassyva while still suiting vanar theme/abilities

1 Like
#11

I’ve no idea if it’s a buff or a nerf, and I think draw Magmar has gotten too many cards for this to be a welcome change, but I wish Starhorn had something along the lines of “You can replace an additional card this turn.” to give it Replace synergy (something that package of cards sorely needs).
Maybe even “You can replace an additional car as this turn. Your opponent can replace an additional card on their next turn.” to keep with Starhorn’s positive/negative BBS.

#12

Well that’s ingenious

#13

The only bbs that i think is underpower is sajj one. Ilenia Just needs more support. The others are fine.

#14

How many cars can a space dino have?

2 Likes
#15

Ilena bbs has a clear problem and every general that has been bad has sort of this same problem.The bbs does nothing at times all the good bbs in game always do something. Sajj bbs is situationally better than Vaath but every turn Vaath gets value on his bbs while Sajj doesn’t always get Value. So back to Ilena I have hydrogarm, Blood bound mentor,Owlbeast sage on the board i am set up to do something cool but I can’t because I have nothing to target.

  • IIena bbs should be able to proc/go off so it can count as spell trigger.I don’t know the exact method it should happen but say allowing to proc as a spell by use on a friendly minions but not stun them would make it a lot more helpful. IIena will be made better when she get more support think ziran.

  • Sajj bbs needs some sort of adjustment.I don’t know how to exactly word so it would be fair it but her bbs needs to carry over so she can get some sort of extended value from it. Maybe her bbs should be a passive but dispellable aura the first time she use it hits minions for 3,The next time 6,The next time 9 ,etc…

  • Kaleos, Ziran, Starhorn, and Kara have show they can work with proper support. Maybe Trinity Oath and Scintilla need to be moved Core. For Kaelos definitely Flamewreath,Starhorn Tectonic Spikes. For Ilena probably iceshatter gauntlet. Anyway the point is core set clearly doesn’t support some generals and needs to be adjusted or they will be bad again.

#16

Sajj bbs should be iris barrier effect “you general takes no damage from minions this turn”. Beeing the artifact general it would perfectly suit her.
Ilena bbs is decent imho, the problem is That shes a control general and faie is so much better in a control deck because warbird is both a control tool and source of damage

1 Like
#17

I think scioness should cause double damage on generals as well as minions it’s a huge pain when I set her up with the ankh so she has blast ability only to have it ruined when it’s just the general left on the board. Especially when I wipe out a group of minions but she’s sub par against a general, to deal double to the general would make up for it

#18

Double damage on Generals as well would be broken as fuck. Just think Falcius or Staff of Ykir + BBS. That’s 8 damage for 4 and 3 mana respectively. She would be more dangerous than Vaath in close quarters.

3 Likes
#20

That’s almost identical to Drogon though. Except it is focused on damage instead of attack strength.

#21

I think Ilena should have the BBS changed to:
dispel a nearby tile. Stun any minion on that tile.

Sajj could have:
your general deals double damage to minions this turn and is dealt half the damage rounded up this turn