Duelyst Forums

alplod · July 2, 2018, 7:44am

The purpose of this thread (and maybe a couple more) is to answer the following questions:

Is the archetype viable? What makes it strong/weak?
If you consider it being on the weaker side, what could make it better? What cards will you buff/nerf/design to make it better?
Should it be better at all? Is it dangerous to make it viable for the meta sake?

This time I’m discussing maybe nonexistant archetype, but @deathsadvocate has ingenious Illena decklist in his fresh Master thread which has much appeal for me. and which I seem not to be able to play properly If you have pretty ANY thoughts, I’d like to hear them.

In this topic I also encourage you to post any decklists you have.

I’m going to ask the similar questions about some more archetypes I’m interested in. No schedule whatsoever.

My own thoughts may be posted later.

Let’s make every archetype viable together!

Previous Archetype Inquiries:

Archetype Inquiries - Swarm Abyssian
Archetype Inquiries - Arcanyst Hai

Also, @epicflygon, @snowshot.

epicflygon · July 2, 2018, 9:17am

I tries it andddddd it’s trash.

improbableblob · July 2, 2018, 9:21am

the only artifacts that are worth running imo are snowpeircer in aggro and white asp in weird decks, the only person I know who has made a sucessful asp deck ever was sticks, which ran things like grimes, grove lion and grincher (I think he called it 3 G’s or something). I’ve no idea what the deck looks like in full, but I think he made a post either here or on reddit at some point so maybe it is still lying around.

epicflygon · July 2, 2018, 9:24am

Asp was a tech option in AB Faie decks but it was viable for a different reason…

phoenixtoasches · July 2, 2018, 9:34am

When I first saw the card, I was hoping Resonance Scythe could be a really good artifact for some artifact stun deck along with gauntlet. I guess, since I have never come up against it, it is not viable. I suspect this is due to Corona nerf.

improbableblob · July 2, 2018, 9:36am

it is not a top tier deck, but you can do some silly things with it, If you have the cards then there is no harm in trying it out

epicflygon · July 2, 2018, 9:41am

I tried it out and I equiped Guantlets + Winterblade + Scythe and the suspected combo didn’t work.

epicflygon · July 2, 2018, 10:04am

So I went over how bad this archetype is so now let’s give it a makeover!

Change Winterblade so it Freezes before the attack happens.
Change Gauntlets so it destroys after the attack happens.
Print a Blue Planar Foundry.
Print better control tools (Vanar has a good enough lategame so they don’t need a combofinisher, they just need to last to the end game) they can be direct or indirect support for artifacts.

alplod · July 5, 2019, 5:19am

Ok, here are some decklists that can be considered artifact Vanar decks.

Sticky’s Triple G (kinda artifact Vanar, year old).

Avalanche Vanar by @crashdummy

Aggro Artifact Vanar by @deathsadvocate:

~~Control Artifact Vanar by me, @alplod (testing currently):~~

~~Hopefully will appear…~~

Don’t have enough spirit to craft +1 coldbiter and white asps. Hoped for Coldbiter+Winterblade stall combo (and infinite shrouds, of course) + lots of BBS but it just isn’t enough.

alplod · July 2, 2018, 10:09am

Yeah. Just yeah.

phoinexflame · July 2, 2018, 10:39am

Vanar has cards Like Concealing Shroud which is something every artifact deck would want, but at the same time they have useless artifacts (Dredger) and their artifacts lack synergy with each other aside from Coldbiter + Winterblade. Unlike Abyssian whose artifacts also don’t synergise well with each other Vanar’s artifacts are not only rather unimpressive together, but very also underwhelming when used alone. All of these factors make Artifact Vanar much less impressive than it could be.

alplod · July 2, 2018, 10:51am

I lack white Asps completely, but I guess it may combo with coldbiter. And enfeeble.

And coldbiter is nice with both dredger and Winterblabe.

So there is at least SOME synergy here.

phoinexflame · July 2, 2018, 10:55am

Yes, but all the Synergy revolves around coldbiter, which while not very bad in itself has yet to become something reliable. Vanar needs some more good cards with artifact synergy for an artifact deck to arise. Or just some artifact with a powerful “whenever this deals damage effect”.

wardl · July 2, 2018, 10:59am

I tried making a decent Ilena artifact deck these past months but the enormous amount of cards needed to pull off the combos makes it not viable. You end up runing out of cards very fast. Pings are very common even in wanderer, making it hard to setup combos in two turns. On top of that if you want the combos to pull off consistently you barely have space for control cards or finishers.

By combo I mean either
Gauntlet + Scythe + Freeze Spell
or
Scythe + Winterblade + Concealing Shroud

luneagal · July 2, 2018, 2:43pm

I remember @wardl letigress artifact combo which is quite funny when i first saw it. But i guess its quite hard to pull off huh, would love to experiment with the idea.

But speaking of vanar artifact, this list is what i used when i got a vanar quest. Its not really artifact heavy and its a mix between my fav archetype replace and my fav boi sarlac.
Snowpierce give ilena a little bit of oomph with the addition of shroud & @ the late game lion + gauntlet help dealing with stuff.

mmf · July 2, 2018, 4:18pm

The archetype doesn’t win with it’s artifacts alone.

Don’t get me wrong, you can get killing blows with the artifacts, but most often you’re looking to set up an alt win condition (i.e: dredger to avalanche/fissure, animus plate for vespyr, or even simple board ctrl stall for faie bbs).

Plus the dredger and coldbiter are legendaries so I can’t craft them as easily

I actually think that artifact vanar has some good potential, but I haven’t tested it enough (dredger and coldbiter ) to really say.

Just imagine an opponent who can burn and stun you continuously all the while being immune to your damage pings. Annoying, but dispellable

alplod · July 2, 2018, 5:10pm

Usual annoying Vanar stuff.

solonafir · July 2, 2018, 6:53pm

A while ago, I used this (more or less - IIRC, I had an Avalance in there… in place of the third Coldbiter, maybe).

It worked, sometimes good, sometimes not so much - unless when able to chain Shroud (with Alcuin): Then it usually worked very well.

The trick was not to show the artifacts too early; I remember having a White Asp equipped and having used Concealing Shroud. The opponent surrounded me with minions in preparation of lethal next turn.

Casting Enfeeble and equipping Coldbiter made for a ragequit

alplod · July 2, 2018, 7:02pm

Yeah, that’s a kind of deck I therycrafted recently, but sadly I don’t have white asp. Alcuin fugitives could be even more funny with shrouds.

Thanks for sharing

snowshot · July 2, 2018, 7:48pm

Few problems with the idaa - vanar either work board with minions and a fuel for the trade or - they work damage through positioning (…and faie).

Running artifacts without backing it up with a strong(!) Board to leave your opponent guessing is a problem due to card limit.

I never tried it but i believe a deck like it would have to be hard aggro.

Archetype Inquiries - Artifact Vanar