Duelyst Forums

Any songhai expert here?

#1

TL-DR : I’m having trouble with Songhai, please look at my deck composition. What’s wrong or need to replace. Thank you.

Since beta i only loved playing Songhai because their burst damage and buff spell. Followed by Vanar in my 2nd favorite.
Few months ago i don’t have any trouble playing Songhai, 3 win strikes was easy. But now i feel like Songhai is bad in the meta (without OP cards such as geomancer or other legendaries).
When someone say Songhai is OP, oh you’re wrong.

  • Backstab? just put a minion at your general back, or move general to the end of board.
  • Ranged? just destroy or dispell it. Some minions also have ranged counter.
  • Burst down by spell damage? Bring some healing minion or spell with you.
  • Other faction without one epic or legendary still do great in arena (example Vanar counter+walls deck and Lyonar control+provoke).

I think Songhai need buffs. The spells are okay, but minions are really weak.
And Kaleos bloodborne’s only work in some condition, not like the other Generals.

Some says Magmar is good in the current meta.
I don’t want to swith/play because they’re good, but because i like their gameplay.

What i want in my deck are spell burst, buff, and ranged combo.
I’m not using backstab because it’s risky and conditional like i said above.
Here is the deck :

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Songhai Flame Wrath deck (in progress)
#2

I am no songhai expert, but I can help

Since you are not going for aggro I would recommend taking blaze hound out. Now if you want spell burst an eight gates geomancer deck with artifacts is probably the best. Since you dont want to do geomancer you could do something else like a (midrange?) deck with zendo, chakri and katara.

Songhai is kind of weak in this meta but you can still do just fine.

1 Like
#3

cards that I would definately take out are: mana vortex (usually not worth it now it has been nerfed), abjudicator (can give flashy combos but most of the time is super clunky), scarlet viper (super slow, tends to do absolutely nothing and is bad vs the top decks removal).

Others that I think might have to go are: xho (battle pets can really hurt you if your opponent plays them well, but the card can be nice), saberspine seal (tends to be a worse pheonix fire, unless you are going banglehai this is kinda not great), inner focus (now that it is 1 mana it’s combos are not great, and you don’t even have anyhting really to take advantage of it), blood rage mask (it is nice for pinging artifacts so if you are having trouble with them then keep it, but it may not be worth the slot if you aren’t trying to burn your opponent down), blaze hound (this is ok card draw, but it is symmetric and only a one time thing so i would consider other options).

Now onto the cards that I would add:
Ki beholder, you said you wanted ranged, well this is the best ranged minion in the game.
Katara: you have very few turn 1 plays, this is one of the better ones and combos very well with mist dragon seal and killing edge.
Cryptographer: in my opinion this is a 3 of in every reva deck it is really strong even without geomancer, getting your heartseekers out more is always nice. This is probably the best 2 drop you can run.
Battle panddo: This is more of a tech choice as there has been a lot of swarm running around, but it is a really strong 3 drop regardless, especially with this next card.
Deathstrike seal: this is really good in songhai, as there are exactly 2 ways to deal with large threats, put it on a heartseeker for value over time or on battle panddo for a board clear.
Onyx bear seal: the other way of dealing with large threats, at least a 2 of in most songhai decks, you need to save your burst for killing the enemy general, not for killing their minions.

Those are all the non legendary cards I can think of, if you have the spirit I would reccomend crafting a set of spelljammers as they are one of the best neutrals in the game, Grandmaster Zendo is also a great finisher and is another priority.

here is a list I just threw together, I think it wil be better than yours, but is by no means perfect

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#4

Any songhai expert here?

@kingw
@eurasianjay

#5

I’m offended :frowning:

#6

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7 Likes
#7

Songhai’ not in the strongest position right now, FYI. With that point aside:

Deck input:
Remove Xho
Remove 1 (or all) Adjudicator
Remove 1 (or all) Inner focus
Remove scarlet viper
Remove 1 (or all) Killing Edge
Remove all Saberspine Seals

I’ll input more later about adding ideas, but at the moment your deck is spell focused but has too many copies of dependent cards (ex Killing Edge and Abjudicator)and some weird thrown in ones (ex Scarlet viper)

#8

Assuming you’re on somewhat of a budget:

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Anyways, the changes:

  • -2 Xho

Xho isn’t really that great of a card. It’s not unplayable (you could put it back in if you wanted to) but there are better options.

  • -3 Abjudicator

Abjudicator isn’t good for decks like this. It’s best for combo decks like the old Tusk Boar OTK deck that utilized 0-mana saberspine seals and 1-mana mirror melds or Artifact Sajj. You might get some value off of it occasionally, but again there are better options.

  • -2 Scarlet Viper

I’m not sure why this is actually here considering you said you don’t like backstab. Scarlet Viper is the worse backstab minion in the game.

  • -2 Mana Vortex

Very niche card and does not fit this deck.

  • -2 Saberspine Seal

See above.

  • -2 Twin Strike

You could keep this if you wanted to but again I removed this because it doesn’t fit this deck and there are better options available. You said you wanted to go for spell burst so I’m tuning the deck towards more damage.

  • +3 Katara

Katara is the best low mana minion in Songhai IMO. It actually doesn’t matter if your opponent tries to avoid the backstab by going against the wall because Reva likes her opponent running from her. Katara is too good not to run if you have Inner Focus and Killing Edge in your deck and it’s still good even if you don’t. I’m not sure if there’s anything more threatening in the game for just 1 mana.

  • +2 Tusk Boar

A good buff target for your spells and generally useful. It’s expensive to craft though, so if you don’t have the spirit just replace this with Xho since you seem to like it.

  • +2 Ki Beholder

Again, a decent buff target and a really good minion in it’s own right. You also said you wanted ranged combos, so a win-win.

  • +3 Sojourner

Counterbalancing the card draw I took out of your deck. Sojourner is also pretty good as it usually draws ~1-2 cards on average, which is better than something like Blaze Hound which is always going to draw only 1 card for you and your opponent.

  • +1 Four Winds Magi

Adds a little bit more power to your deck as well as giving you more spell-related damage.

  • +2 Juxtaposition

Highly flexible card and will allow you to deal with a lot of threats you couldn’t otherwise (by moving them away). Plus since you’re not playing Kaleos this adds more movement to your deck which is vital for Songhai.

I would look into crafting Spelljammers if you plan on playing Songhai as it’s one of the most important neutrals for the faction. Cheers.

3 Likes
#9

Thank you for all the suggestions guys. :slight_smile:
I will create all of it, and try which one suit me best.

Now about the gameplay. What must i do when i got dispeled or removed?
It’s like the main problem for songhai.
When i already prepared to attack, like buffing chakri and ready to switch position, summon fox for drawing phoenix, 4 winds, and range. Most of the times all of them got removed or dispeled.
Like i have no other option beside waiting for another combo and retreating.

I proved it by playing Vanar (my 2nd fav faction), and face songhai few times.
And i was right, i counter them with dispel and removal and they’re dead.

Edit : Also what must i do when facing a healing deck? When i burst down enemy to 5 health… And boom next turn the health go back to 15 or higher… :sweat:

Thank you again for helping, and have a nice day. :grin:

#10

Welcome to the meta :wink:

#11

Rather than post an example of a decklist, let’s go over what a deck needs or how it can be improved on. 1st of, a deck needs 2 drops, at least 8 - 2 mana or less minions that can effectively be used as a turn 1 player 1 play is what most decks need, having 8 of them will give a ~90% chance of giving a T1P1 play.

A deck would like to have consistency, having 2 or 3 copies of a card that can be used more frequently in the early or mid game would give better chances to draw it early on. Having fewer unique cards in the deck also allows for a higher chance to replace into the card you need - you cannot replace into the same card you just replaced.

A deck needs a win condition, it can be anything from an aggro variant, a Midrange build, a control or a combo list that has a clear idea on how it wins.

A deck would like to have a Mana Curve, how the Curve looks like should reflect on the win condition.

Card draw and removal is what a deck would like to have as well. Answers for threats and the ability to refill your hand is important.

Usually a deck has more minions than spells, because having a threat on the board is usually more beneficial than going without one. Minions are usually how you deal damage to the opposing general and divert damage from your own.

With all these in mind, I think the posted decklist has too many spells, too few 2 drops, needs better removal other than direct damage - probably wants dispel or deathstrike seal.

The link is to Grinch’s deckbuilding guide, which I think is one of the better guides out there.

3 Likes
#12

This is a mix of deck building and game playing (obviously, as those are really the only components.)

If you plan on utilizing heavy (persistent) effect-based late game minions, you oftentimes want to build decks with early (persistent) effect-based minions; this leaves the opponent 1 of 2 options in the early game - for them to use their dispel and removal, or to hold onto it. This leads into more of a better overall scenario for you, as if they hold onto their removal, you get to better utilize your early game minions. If they use it, they’ve spent dispel/removal resources that they will no longer (or be less likely to) have when you put down larger effect-based minions. Think of chakri and 4 winds as examples (or pyromancer and aymara, etc. etc.)

The gameplay side of things - pacing. Understand the pace of YOUR deck, the pace your opponent’s deck seems to be learning toward, and play accordingly. Burst against healing is tough, as you have to try your best to outburst and/or create too much tempo/minions for them before they can out value your burst (cough sundrop cough).

Songhai vs Abyssians - because abyssians have such good late game tools, it is almost always a matter of beating them before late game, or low enough where they can no longer use their general to really contribute to the fight.

If you are extremely confident that you just won’t be able to burst them down quick enough (this figures they are controlling your game while still having fair number of cards), PACE YOURSELF. I have won aggro decks against controlling ones due to pacing my cards in such a way as to bait out their dispels one by one. It’s tough, but knowing your deck and how it fairs against other types helps to mitigate those natural disadvantages.

Learn your deck, learn how it fairs against other archetypes, and continually think of cards you aren’t utilizing as you play so you can remove them and therefore improve upon your deck!

Additionally, if you’d like, you can add me and we can play each other for some gameplay feedback.

3 Likes
#13

^that fella is swell! He will help.

#15

I accidentally delete my reply, ugh need to retype again. Nvm.

Yeah i totally need to learn again about Songhai.
With these new cards, new meta, i need new strategy to face all type of decks.
(seriously i really left behind with this new meta, i quit last time long before bloodborne, i think… lol… just go back playing few days ago)

i think i’ll switch to other faction for now. Just for the sake of ranks, lol.
But still Songhai is in my heart :heart:

Thank you again for your advice :slight_smile:

#16

Don’t commit yourself into Vanarcanyst plz, you may grind a few ranks but you will lose all self-esteem :wink:

1 Like
#17

Well songhai was always the hard-to-master faction, in my opinion. I totally aggree with everything seraphicreaper said. But i have to add: all your minoins con alone do a lot of burst damage, and the opponents will always try to remove or dispel most of them. Therefore you shall plan ahead looking at the enemy, at their deck type and faction.
I came back to duelyst after the Ancient Bonds expansion came out and i still play a spell reva deck and it perfom nicely till diamond. Songhai has changed but it’s still songhai :smiley:
If you liked it before you will like it now too!
Good luck with the ladder :slight_smile:

#18

Arcanyst… Oh my, i don’t even have epics in my Vanar… But still doing great, lol…
This why i’m mad about Songhai being weak without epics/legends. :sweat_smile:

#19

That’s what i am using now, it seems to be not very expansive, however all expensive cards are staples :slight_smile:

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#21

With Obscuring Blow, everything is a Backstab minion, even an EMP backstabbing for 11 :wink:

#22

Oh yeah, i forgot about that spell. haha :smiley:

I wanna ask, is it effect stack with minion that already has backstab? Like katara from 3 go into 5?