Duelyst Forums

Ancient Bonds Day 5 Abyssian: Death Knell

#66

I’m personally okay with the idea of a faction being the ultimate late game faction, but my issue with it is how much removal they have accessible to them if abyssian does become THE late game faction.

Going against a Cassyva who just removes your stuff constantly until the late game to just lay down Revenants and Obliterate isn’t fun, and probably leads to the support of out-of-hand damage as a counterplay, which then leads to blah blah blah which then leads to bleh bleh bleh. I don’t know the other components, but the illustration I provided should suffice my comments.

That said, I don’t mind this card, but it’s entirely possible I’m overlooking things.

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#67

i just dont want another “variax” meta because of this card you get what i mean. if they gunna create such a monsterous effect it should be 9 mana

#68

Plenty of scope for counterplay. Remember nothing happens on that turn apart from a bunch of arcanists randomly appearing. Makantar, Holy Immo etc etc, many ways of dealing with this.

#69

But not everybody plays Magmar or lyonar…

#70

Fair enough, as Songhai you have one more turn of out and out face damage without repraisal. Which normally should be enough for a typical Songhai by 9 mana. Vanar has enfeeble.

Vetruvian I suppose can have problems with Death Knell, but then again that goes for most everything.

#71

The issue with Variax was the strength of the BBS in conjunction with DFS. This card can’t abuse the system like that because it requires previous arcanysts to have been played. While DFS could be used like it did with Variax, it is anti-synergistic as you’re looking to play as many arcanysts prior to playing this card.

I really wouldn’t worry about another Variax meta.

#72

nah what a meant was … a flood of players using mainly this deck as it stands now the meta has some diversity in it…i dont want duelyst to become like shadowverse where u facing 2 back to back decks

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#73

Nope you understood me correctly this time ^^
And from my understanding of the game’s inner workings I would say it does resurrect anything that died twice, twice because there is no real “Graveyard” here, just something that “records” everything that died up until now

#74

Correct. Just like Keeper of the Value.

#75

For one, I apologize that my wording was vague. What I meant when I mentioned Lightbender was not that I want his opening gambit to trigger, but rather that his ability is the reason why he sees play at all. When you’re bringing him back from the grave, he’s just a 3/3 body. The reason he’s in the deck in the first place no longer matters.

Secondly, I don’t intend to be rude, but Arcane Devourer is a terrible card. You can’t tell me you can play Death Knell for 1 mana but ignore the 7 mana you needed to play Arcane Devourer first. You’re still spending 8 but now for two cards, essentially meaning that Arcane Devourer is a glorified golem (a vanilla 8/4 minion that is very weak for 7 mana). Continuing on this, Nether Summoning can be impactful given the right opportunity, but frequently misses its mark. Most of the time, when you lose your minions, you’re not losing exactly two important ones and frequently your opponent has also lost minions as well. If you play around it really, really carefully, you can get good value, but the card is not efficient in most scenarios. This is why you’ll never see this card as a go to in higher level play.

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#76

Serpentis are cousins, not Inxikrah.

#77

3/3 body is better than nothing especially if you get it for free. you would likely have played it even without arcanyst synergy so yeah.

i played against grandmaster yukarin a few days ago and he played it against me not sure if one or 2 of those don’t remember. (pretty sure he was top 7 or something at the time)

i was hovering like s rank ~90(at the end of season got a winning streak and got to top 45, maybe even finished in top 50, not sure, i haven’t been tryharding to rank up) and pretty much every cassiva played it, don’t know if top ~50 is not high level play than what is?

arcane devourer may not be worth it on his own but, he is better than nothing, there is difference between getting just a 6/6 or getting 6/6 and 8/4 for same amount of mana. it also has to be dealt with. lets say argeon will have to spend holly immolation just to kill it. if you position correctly the 6/6 will remain intact and you can revive him later anyway with your next death knell. if it gets to swing on the opponent’s general it could be gg and since you can revive it multiple times and/or combo with revenant as well i definetely would have tryed it in an arcanyst cassiva deck, at the very least it will eat a strong removal.

#78

I don’t want to discredit you, but I’m curious. How long ago was it that you were seeing every Cassyva player running Nether Summoning? Personally, I have not reached S-rank (nor do I care to) but I watch nearly 3 games for every 1 that I play. I haven’t seen Nether Summoning played more than twice on all of those games, iirc.

In my own personal usage, I’ve had no success with it. However, I only ran it in a joke deck, so I don’t blame the card on that one. For what it’s worth, I’m not saying it’s a bad card. Rather it is frequently unreliable.

Arcane devourer, I still believe it’s spot in the deck would be better dedicated to other cards.

Lightbender, I still believe is a good card. I was not saying it shouldn’t be run, I was simply pointing out its interaction with Death Knell (being a 3/3 body), nothing more.

#79

last 2 months probably. they don’t get to play it every game but if they play a revenant it is likely followed by nether summoning or other revenant on the next turn. you see it played in tournaments very often too.

sometimes they play it to even bring a kelaino back, kelaino + something is very worth for 5 mana.

i said i would try it, unfortunately the 40 cards limit is a thing and often you have to giveup on something.
it could very well be arcane devourer if i had to choose get it or revenant.

i pointed out that the idea of death knell is to get free value, getting 3+ free minions from it is probably the target(you don’t care much about with minions you get, a 3/3 body is likely 3 worth 3 mana so not too bad), you want to outvalue the variax if you are going to play it. the better part is you will get everything that opponent killed so if he managed to survive the first attempt he is much less likely to survive the second as you get all the previous minions and a 6/6 of the first death knell.
is it worth to play the 8/4 to increase the free value i don’t know, this is purely theoretical at this stage.

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#80

I wonder if perhaps I want being the whole picture when looking at S-rank recordings. I may look into it more. I did suspect its greatest value comes from raising a Revenant (among other things).

Otherwise, I agree with you on all points. If try her out and you have success with Devourer, let me know!

#81

The word ‘copy’ has nothing to do with it. Death Knell brings back all friendly Arcanysts that died prior to its summoning. Unless the code is way out there, it’s not going to make a distinction between a minion that died and one that died and was brought back. All it’s going to check for is ‘dead’ + ‘Arcanyst’. As long as it fulfills those conditions, it’ll return from the grave.

tl;dr Unless something is super weird in the code, every Arcanyst will return with Death Knell so the second Knell can summon multiple copies of the same dead Arcanyst.

#82

7 actually, since there’s no Airdrop in card text.

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#83

Actually it wouldn’t be weird or anything, if Death Knell removed “Dead” from the cards it summoned (after summoning them) it would work the way @longshot405 expects it to and I would be able to say there is a “Graveyard” in the game but there really isn’t, up until now at least

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#84

Right, this is how I saw it. Also, the graveyard might not be a zone that exists, but as you said, cards clearly have some sort of tag applied to them when they die which marks them as dead.

It’s also possible that instead of removing the “dead” status, the game might not allow a card to be marked twice. In other words, the “dead” status is binary, and cannot stack.

#85

No, it would be extremely weird. Look at it this way

  1. Arcanyst A dies
  2. Death Knell 1 is summoned, bringing back Arcanyst A.
  3. Both Death Knell 1 and Arcanyst A die
  4. Death Knell 2 is played.

Regardless of whether or the ‘dead’ tag is removed, Arcanyst A still died twice. So it’ll get brought back twice.

Actually, come to think of it, we have proof of this interaction. Imagine a board state where you control Manaforger and Tiger. On your opponent’s turn, they kill Tiger. On your next turn, you cast Nether Summoning, bringing back the Tiger. You then suicide the Tiger. If you play a second Nether Summoning, you will get two Tigers.