Am I wrong about rush?


#1

I just don’t see an issue with it everything is “working as intended” in my opinion. But what do you guys think? I’ve seem some complains here and there but I want to know your opinion. Oh last thing: please don’t make this thread a whining thread, please just facts and personal opinions.


#2

I feel the game would be a bit less exciting and a bit more predictable and a bit more boring without the rush keyword. I think it’s fine as is. It can lead to big upsets/surprises yes. But I’d pay that price for the general fun it brings.


#3

I’ll keep this short and sweet because I’ve already discussed it to death. I personally dislike the mechanic because:

a) it’s extremely unfun to be on the receiving end of it, and it’s not particularly fun to use it either
b) it severely limits the design space

The way I’d deal with it is to remove all neutral rush minions as well as spells that provide rush ie limit the mechanic to only faction based minions. It obviously wouldn’t be perfect as stuff like Elu+TW might still come up but it should help in keeping it from getting out of hand.


#4

Rush hasn’t bothered me yet.


#5

Rush can be a bit cancerous, but right now it’s one of the main removal tools Magmar has, and it’s a wincon by it’s own. And I have to disagree with you, it really is fun to play in Keeper Magmar.


#6

I’m talking in general and not about magmar specifically being the issue. I just used it as an example to why my solution wouldn’t be perfect before someone else points it out.


#7

My problem with rush basically boils down to Keepermar. Throwing out Eludicators and Makantors, and then getting them again AND able to attack again is not something the opponent can really play around consistently. Not without Night Watch, and no one wants to run that.


#8

But I want to play Keeper Vaath at some point!


#9

Yes of course, I totally understand you and agree with you, but before devs take out rush (but I hope it won’t entirely happen) they need to implement something that compensates that.


#10

And I want to play Spellhai. But I’m also aware that my opponents are people too.


#11

People who are also free to play either Spellhai or Keeper Vaath. :wink:


#12

Long story short, Rush is a Necessary mechanic for the same way Provoke is a necessary mechanic to the game. In a game where no minion can act on the turn it is played, power goes to the minons that has the highest value. Provoke, as an example, controls where these minions can move or attack without support from other cards. Rush acts as an equalizer in providing tempo of action instead of halting your opponent’s tempo. Taking away Rush as a keyword would limit design space and cause a large shift in the balance of power, and would necessitate large overhauls to a variety of archetypes and playstyles.


#13

If you complain about rush ,You have to complain about spells.Weridly people don’t complain about spells.

Rush needs rules in duelyst

1.It shouldn’t be on nuetral minions
2.It should be expensive.The only thing that can be done on that turn.
3.If it is cheap it should have some drawback ala eludicator or tusk boar

Rush is double edge sword.You can see Mankantor and Spectral Reventant are designed for when you are behind but when the other person is up they are soul crushing cards.For me I can live with that Mankantor has put me back in so many games.

Honestly give Lyonar saberspine tiger then design rush units for Vanar and Vet.Screw new players needing a neutral “spell”,I am sure they are happy not getting smorc by whatever cheesy deck has figured out how to abuse tiger at the time.Tiger has been at the center of most of cheesy stuff in the game

1.Laser kitty
2.Kara Tigers
3.4-1 tigers
4.Face monkey
5.1 mana diretide frenzy with Keeper Magmar

I am sure I am forgetting something,Rush should be faction specific.


#14

tusk is not a downside for cheap rush. it’s why the card was and still is pretty broken. it’s a guaranteed 2 damage to your face that you either trade into or take more face damage or make the choice on a later turn. not to mention it combos with meld now


#15

Saberspine Tiger is not an issue here, but giving it only for Lyonar would be a big problem. Why? Because is so good in Lyo, buffs can make it ridiculous. But you’re right about cheesy stuff, but tigers were not the problem, the problem was always that cheesy stuff, that’s why it got nerfed, not the tigers only cheesy stuff.


#16

You wrote well and you wrote also for me :slight_smile: just I think Rush should be mostly confined to Magmar. But the rules are sound


#17

I like to think of Rush minions as spells. Makantor is, essentially, a 6 mana AOE spell that leaves behind a body. Revenant is like a 7 mana removal that also damages the opponent general. Elucidator is a 4 mana damage spell that leaves behind a body and hurts you. Since these cards cost so much (6 mana/ 7 mana/ 4 mana + 4 health) I find them not very frutrating. I just think of them as spells and the salt starts to drip away.

However, cheap rush can be very problematic. Two cards in particular come into mind; Saberspine Tiger and Inner focus. The tiger seems innocent enough seeing how it is comparable to a 3 mana Phoenix Fire that is neutral. However, it enables some very frustrating combos with attack buffs. Since it is neutral and low cost, it is extraordinarily easy to fit into decks. Inner focus is another instance of cheap rush. Here, you only have to pay one card to give a 3 or less attack minion rush. I understand that Songhai was most likely designed with the fact that inner focus would be very powerful already in mind, but Shim’Zar introduced some new cards that really takes advantage of it (I’m looking at you Katara). The commonality between these two Rush cards is they it is so easy to fit them into your deck/ turn. Unlike the others, which are expensive and predictable, these are cheap and spontaneous.


#18

Immolated roaring tigers.


#19

I hope that Lucy combo (Elu+TW) won’t get nerfed, the amount of games I won that way is just stupid. It’s like Inner Focus+Killing Edge on steroids (well as expected from Magmar I guess).


#20

10 damage on 7 mana is pedestrian compared to the 21 songhai can do besides Magmar has bounded lifeforce forever.10 out of hand damage