Alternate idea for Bloodrage Mask


#1

Instead of doing 1 damage for each spell cast, what about something like:
Give your general +1 or +2 ATK this turn for each spell cast this turn. If +2 ATK was the option then I think having a cap of like 5 or 6 ATK added MAX would be necessary. This would also be a nerf to Reva, and either a buff or a neutral change to Kaleos, as he is usually not benefiting from running away the entire match.

Also they would be forced to trade in Durability for their precious face damage that they covet so much.


Edit- This is a response in the comments. I am adding it in here in case anyone misses it.:

Is this necessary? Does a very large portion of the meta consist of very strong decks running 3 of this specific card?

Yes, Reva’s Aggro and other forms are the strongest decks agreed on by almost everyone. Most aggro decks run 3x, and other less aggressive lists will still usually run 2x or 3x

Does this card represent a strategy that is unfair and offers little interaction opportunity for the opponent?

The stategy synergizes well with Songhai’s theme, but it will usually translate into at least 4 or 5 damage. For 2 Mana that is a lot. Yes you can smack their general to destroy it, but Reva usually plays keepaway and you generally want to be trading into enemy minions instead of the general against aggro. By forcing you to trade into the general to destroy the artifact you also lose tempo. Yeah you get some good face damage in but unless you are also playing Aggro, face damage matters very little until your opponent starts running out of cards.

I don’t think that the card is broken, I think that Reva is a very strong general and has extremely good synergy with it. The 2 entities are okay by themselves(a bit on the strong side, but okay) but paired together they are extremely potent.

Pretty much everyone agrees that Songahi/Reva is the strongest as of right now. If everyone is in agreement that that Reva is defining the meta, then slight nerfs/ changes are a good idea to keep her in check. What I was looking for was more of a change rather than a straight up nerf as Kaleos does not need to be beaten anymore than he has been lately.

Myself, and many others I assume are hoping for a Kara type rework for several Songhai cards. Keep the main identity intact, but remove synergies and interactions that are too powerful/not fun to play against.

I totally agree with you on trusting developers to handle balancing. I know the community overreacts to anything before they even test changes, like with the Siphon Energy nerf. Yeah, it hurt but Vet is still a really strong class. This is just throwing out ideas to see what people think, not a complaining thread.


#2

I support this idea 100%!


#3

With this, I’d love to see a multiturn combo involving MoS + Mistwalking + SSSeals. Now that would be awesome.


#4

Is this necessary? Does a very large portion of the meta consist of very strong decks running 3 of this specific card? Does this card represent a strategy that is unfair and offers little interaction opportunity for the opponent?

I highly doubt it.

If the card is not run in a large portion of meta-defining decks, i.e. either you run it yourself or have to add cards to counter it, then it is not deserving of a nerf.

If it is powerful against your deck(s) then you have to either adjust your deck to be stronger against this type of strategy or accept that your deck has a bad matchup against decks that run this card.

The sooner people realize this is how balance is judged by designers the better. This game changes too often based on the uninformed vocal few that complain about losing to strategies they don’t like and I am personally tired of reading post after post asking for the unreasonable nerf to balanced cards.


#5

Is this necessary? Does a very large portion of the meta consist of very strong decks running 3 of this specific card?

Yes, Reva’s Aggro and other forms are the strongest decks agreed on by almost everyone. Most aggro decks run 3x, and other less aggressive lists will still usually run 2x or 3x

Does this card represent a strategy that is unfair and offers little interaction opportunity for the opponent?

The stategy synergizes well with Songhai’s theme, but it will usually translate into at least 4 or 5 damage. For 2 Mana that is a lot. Yes you can smack their general to destroy it, but Reva usually plays keepaway and you generally want to be trading into enemy minions instead of the general against aggro. By forcing you to trade into the general to destroy the artifact you also lose tempo. Yeah you get some good face damage in but unless you are also playing Aggro, face damage matters very little until your opponent starts running out of cards.

I don’t think that the card is broken, I think that Reva is a very strong general and has extremely good synergy with it. The 2 entities are okay by themselves(a bit on the strong side, but okay) but paired together they are extremely potent.

Pretty much everyone agrees that Songahi/Reva is the strongest as of right now. If everyone is in agreement that that Reva is defining the meta, then slight nerfs/ changes are a good idea to keep her in check. What I was looking for was more of a change rather than a straight up nerf as Kaleos does not need to be beaten anymore than he has been lately.

Myself, and many others I assume are hoping for a Kara type rework for several Songhai cards. Keep the main identity intact, but remove synergies and interactions that are too powerful/not fun to play against.

I totally agree with you on trusting developers to handle balancing. I know the community overreacts to anything before they even test changes, like with the Siphon Energy nerf. Yeah, it hurt but Vet is still a really strong class. This is just throwing out ideas to see what people think, not a complaining thread.


#6

I like this idea, but I am torn about it as well. I can see this idea spiraling out of hand very quickly.

In a vaccum, I see this change as OP. I understand a vaccum is not the state that this game is played in though. I just see it as another way that Songhai can burst you down. I propose the following scenario: this change is implemented as +1 per spell cast for a turn.

You have 4 cores: (turn two or three depending on starting side) my assumption is that statisticaly it would be very common to draw this combination of cards.

Equip blood rage mask 1, mist walking 1, sabre spine seal 2.

+5 to your general for this turn and a ping off your artifact.

My take away from this scenario:
Three card combo, you are most likely at a hand disadvantage now, and you are positioned next to your opponents general.

Edits: spell check


#7

I actually think this idea is cool as well, but it could be even stronger than the current Bloodrage Mask.

Consider: Cyclone Mask. It does require an additional artifact, but you can now use your Bloodrage+Cyclone Mask to either target enemy generals OR minions instead of being required to use Bloodrage for face damage. In the long term I just see complaints being shifted from Spellhai to Artifacthai.


#8

That requires a much more significant mana investment and a pivot from controlling space to running away, which is a large, sudden shift. It wouldn’t happen.


#9

@moot

Yes it is a huge part of the meta, yes it is a rather unfair strategy. And no it does not promote their theme. Songhais theme is highly aggressive, position manipulation, backstab, ranged, and spell combos/synergy. It is not nor should it be uniteractive out of hand spell damage being the primary way you kill things combined with infinite range teleports.

Burn spells are fine but it should be a tough choice wether you use them for control or for face but things like mask and fourwinds let you do both control and or face at the same time. Spellhai’s problem has nothing to do with wether they are top of the ladder or not, at its core it’s an unhealthy playstyle that does not use the grid, which is the fundamental aspect of the game that sets it apart from everything else.

Sure Reva can be countered by healing, boxing in, and provoke but ultimately it is mostly reliant on what she draws and how well she plays and little to do with you besides what you tech in the deck building process.

That being said I don’t want to see Songhai get nerfed, I want to see them get buffed and reworked a little to actually support their themes. So here are my suggested changes to problem cards:

Mask into Mist Kusarigama: 1 cost: When you cast a spell teleport a unit or general one space.

Fourwinds effect changed to: Draw a card at the end of your turn for each spell you cast. May be a bit much but could put a hard limit on the number if need be.

Jux: Limit range to three spaces, add friendly units gain +1 attack.

And finally

Innerfocus into Shadow Jaunt: 0 mana, teleport a unit or general one space, draw a card at the end of your turn.

Yes focus is mostly a problem with Revas BBs, but the spell inheritly limits design of both Songhai and neutral units as everything must be checked agaisnt it. I would much rather see more strong synergistic combo units like chakri exist then let this spell continue to be.

The faction can still have spell synergy, it can still have strong consistent cycling, but spells should not be the main way you kill people. I really think these cards are the problem, and if they get changed into something like this the faction will be left with some powerful synergistic combo cards that actually promote their spell synergy/position manipulation theme. But encourage tactical positioning and grid use rather then unlimited range board ignoring teleports, and killing people with uniteractive out of hand spell damage.

They can still have their spiral finisher, they can still have their Phoenix Fire, and without inner focus fox is a non issue. If we just give them a little more draw they will no longer need to rely on spell jammer, and we can promote more in faction synergy without increasing their out of hand bursts.

The extra teleports including General ones give Backstab and Kal a big buff. With inner focus gone and the need to actually use minions or your general to kill stuff Reva will be kept in check. The extra teleports also help out ranged units just by helping keep them safe.


#10

Running away and controlling the board go hand and hand in Artifacthai/Spearhai. That’s actually exactly how you’re supposed to play the type of deck it is, and Spellhai runs away quite a bit already so… I think it’s actually quite probable. Your statement is probably true of other factions, but Songhai doesn’t have many qualms about it.


#11

That’s a phenomally well put argument if that were the case, but it’s not. By definition it is an oppressive card it both limits choice in that factions deckbuilding and limits other decks to building solutions for it. We need to see a change to bloodrage mask for the same reason we saw a change to siphon energy, it’s being forced into very deck belonging to it’s respective faction which then reduces creativity.


#12

i think it would be interesting if the bloodrage mask gave a random friendly minion +1 attack for that turn per spell cast. it would make the mask more minion oriented (especially backstab). while it can translate to the exact same face damage, it forces them to hit your face with a minion to get that effect. it even lets their minions trade much farther up than usual(which would help against lyonar, their rival faction). there might even be a mid/long range archtype like other factions use since your general can sit back and buff minions to attack with (as if they dont do that already).

@deathsadvocate if you gave them better draw, it might keep them away from spelljammer, but thats not the problem and in faction synergy is the least of songhais worries. songhai is the faction where you can use 37/40 faction cards and have a top tier deck(with spelljammer as the only neutral). what really needs to happen to give songhai more competitive deck archtypes is to make them have more synergy with neutral minions. if neutral minions work really well in songhai decks, it forces people to use the board since they are using minions instead of spells and it gives more far more variance between different songhai decks than what we see now where 90% of reva decks are identical give or take a card.

if its done well we might even get control type decks :astonished:


#13

you literally just removed both of songhais artifact pings. Sure we have artifact destroyer but its not nearly as potent as blasting them for damage while healing your own. Aslo mist kusarigame+onyx jag would be broken in the late game. Same problem with shadow jaunt.Also your idea doesn’t help Kal he should keep inner focus as it is a lotof the times the decks kill condition/removal. Katara+inner focus=4 health removalfor 1 mana. Scarlet viper+inner focus=6 damage plus a decent body that can hit anywhere again in another turn.


#14

Artifact ping is really not a concern, they still have loads of ranged and of course fire spam for that. Most factions lack ping, they have plenty even with those removed.

And yea it would combo with Jag, and it would be strong but that’s kind of the point. Power is fine when it requires set up and resources to accomplish, with inner focus gone this is a powerful combo but one that can be played around, which is fine, and infinitely better then various inner focus combos. It also helps compensate for putting range limits on their other teleports creating a much healthier, while still strong playstyle.

And of course it helps Kal, it encourages backstab/jaguar/zendo play which is what he excels at. While helping Reva to a lesser extent enabling the keep away game/providing card advantage.

The whole point is not to nerf them, but to shift the power toward their theme and make them strong but interactive.


#15

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