Abyssal Juggernaut discussion


#1

I don’t understand how this is “balanced.”

4 mana cost 10/10 at turn 3. Please explain me how this is considered balanced.

Seems my title got edited, still gonna say that theres some serious balance issues since last patch.


#2

You have to play a bunch of nearly useless cards in order to make that happen, also having that much shadow creep on turn 3 is quite exceptional (assuming you are not telling lies and this is actually turn 3).

A simple dispel will drive this juggernaut back to 3/3.

Also you can’t really blame the balance when you are playing mechmar which is completely outdated.

This is how it is considered balanced.:innocent:

Outside of that I agree that juggernaut is very powerful, without him the shadow creep deck would be unplayable , he is the real pay off.


#3

“Just dispel it, man!” The defense of every Cass player ever. lol


#4

He summoned a bunch of abyssal crawlers and used a shadow nova.

I don’t know why you consider those cards “useless”, any card in a deck should have a function and reason.

The screenshot is turn 4, but he summoned it at turn 3 when it was still 10/10.

I don’t see how mechazor is outdated with the new card Z0r.

Edit: I forgot about the new battle pet snail, he had one of those too.


#5

it finally lives up to its name


#6

Shadow Nova is usually a waste of mana. It compares to Wraithling Swarm in this it offers very little tempo to get a load of resources onto the board. When you see them play shadow nova, capitalize on the tempo loss and push on the board.

Abyssal Crawler, on the other hand, is a very powerful 1 drop. It has a decent enough body for 1 mana and the ability to generate 4+ tiles of left unchecked. These are the creep factories to watch out for.

Klaxon is the most dangerous creep generator, but you can dispel her relatively easily


#7

Just played another game against an Abyssian with Abyssal Juggernaut as main focus in her/his deck.

Honestly, there’s no way to answer to Juggernaut, he constantly grows with the increase of shadow creep tiles and saying “Dispel it!” is just way too cheap to say the issue is solved. Let’s be realistic here, most people are not gonna have more then 3 dispels in their deck and you won’t always draw into them fast enough or was forced to already use it in a previous turn.


#8

i can’t find a place for jugger in my creep deck and i do just fine


#9

nah, just use cards like Repulsor Beast to punt it off to siberia while you beat on cassyva. honestly as long as you force her away from it, you won’t have to deal with until cass has blanketed the board with creep and you would’ve lost anyways


#10

Shadow creep is top tier right now , so you either need a deck that’s equally good and there is plenty , or a deck that answer shadow creep which there is also plenty. But if you choose to play mechmar which is a old outdated deck don’t be surprised.

I gave you a very easy way to deal with jugger, you can choose to ignore it and carry on complaining, or take my advice it is up to you. But I know plenty of people prefer to complain without even trying to search solutions.

Btw I play vanar on ladder those days, I have 8 answers against jugger (2 lightbender,3 chromatic cold, 3 aspect of the fox) and that’s the case of most midrange deck right now.

Usain bolt without his shoes would still run faster than you it doesn’t mean he should. What do you mean by “just fine” what rank were you when you played the deck?


#11

Serch the post i made. Rank 3 and It has 80% win rate. You can see the deck list there. But im not running and usain Bolt without his shoes can’t add another 3 cards to his running. You can’t just say that. You sound a little rude. This guy can argue about balance. If you think he is wrong don’t just say you can’t argue. Tell him how he is wrong So he can learn


#12

Juggernaut is only good when playing creep abyssian, so it can only be measured by how good creep abyssian is.

There is an inherent downside to juggernaut besides dispel: you have to play a certain deck archetype. So what does this mean? Any counters to the creep abyssian deck is an indirect defense against juggernaut.

Furthermore, I think the situation you ran into was just unlucky. Accept variance and move on would be my advice. If you perpetually run into t4 juggernauts which become 10/10s, then we have a problem. Also, you do realize that running removal is a good idea, right? Because this is why removal exists.


#13

Thank you.

/15char


#14

i dont have enough spirit/gold to make obliterate or azaleas. without juggernaught my creep deck has no win condition


#15

Last season result doesn’t mean anything since we only had 1 day with shim’zar , I should not have ask that ,was silly :yum:

Whatever you find “good enough”, I promise to change my name to Ionwasright if shadow creep players consistently decides to play without jugger.

Maybe I didn’t choose the right word, but this is nonetheless basic logic. How can you estimate balance when you are shooting a bullet on your feet at the beginning of each game?

I did provide arguments:

This is what people responded:

What else can I say?

Every reasonable midrange/control deck has at least 6 dispels/removals, or you just play an aggro deck so then your are supposed to kill before it gets out of control. And of course you should not waste your removal/dispel on ooz or crawler when you know that Klaxon and juggernaut are coming.

Also keep in mind that the scenario you ran into was extreme and shadow creep usually doesn’t accumulate that quickly.


#16

I think the problem here is that the easiest method, dispel, is a bit irrelevant to whether a card is op or not.

It’s like saying, “nimbus is trash because it dies to (insert favorite non-damage removal here)”

A card’s value can’t be measured by what kills it. A 2/3 and a 10/10 both die to, say, entropic decay, but clearly they are very different.

This is reasonable, but removal generally falls on minions that cost more than 4, which is too cheap for a 7/7, which should be reasonably easy to get.

Maybe jugg should be 5 mana 4/4 or something?


#17

I think you are already familiar with the answer:

Duelyst is a game with 1 mana 2/2 + 8/8 Airdrop Frenzy Ranged Cannot be targetted by ANY spells, on turn 2.


#18

It depends on how much the card cost for example , it is quite irrelevant for fox because the card is very cheap so the pay off for dispel is not big. But in the case of jugger it is a 4 mana card as well as a big investment in terms of under powered shadow creep card, also the fact that usually you can’t drop jugger early on is a big factor.

For example forstiva is bad because it becomes worthless on very basic answers. However card like inquisitor kron have such big body and gets immediate value , so dispel even if needed won’t really answer it.


#19

I haven’t been able to summon Mechaz0r before turn 4 yet myself.


#20

ALL for the Shadow Creep is unbalanced! I’m thinking of quitting the game …