Alright, let’s do a big ol’ IN MY OPINION piece.
In other words, this is not me speaking as a developer, I’m not speaking on behalf of CPG or BNEA, just as a player with maybe a little more insider info than normal.
We got four stages we can view the game in
Bronze - Basically what we’re doing now, keeping the game alive knowing full well it’s neither coming or going anywhere. It’s on life support and everyone is holding their breath hoping it doesn’t go dark.
Silver - We work on updating the current game with no ‘real’ content updates. The game could receive something like infrequent balance updates or boss battle tweaks, basically recycling the existing assets to provide “new” toys for Duelyst fans to play with, but it’s never hitting home like an actual expansion. Duelyst is our sandbox, this is all the sand we get, but we can do what we want with it.
Gold - Some finance (besides developer time/approval) is set aside to work on new content. Maybe we can get some system updates and overhaul the economic issues the game has so it stands on its own. Maybe we could get away with a yearly expansion?
STAR PLATINUM: Duelyst 2: Electric Boogaloo
“New game,” new marketing, new game economics, new platforms, new everything (a real revival would even be on a new engine). Inevitably upset a portion of our fans when we make changes to things they held dearly, but provide a stronger foundation to support Duelyst for years to come?
Right now I do not believe that there can be any sort of significant influence that can be made on Duelyst’s behalf short of a miracle (like a sudden outrageous surge of players coming into the game). These miracles also cannot be made unless make any updates to pique interest in the game, so that’s why we’re basically in a standstill.
So… we’re back to working on Godfall until we have the time to push for that “Silver” implementation I’m hoping we could do?
Thank you very much, it means something to me (and i believe even to others)
I like the term “electric boogaloo” (will it be a future minion? XD)
so…we need a miracle uh?
Is coming back to a “kickstarter” form a useful thing? yes i know it sounds bad even just writing it but people who already are angry/let down will stay that way in any case and i believe that with a new “marketing/advertising”, more will come attracted by your beatiful game.
Is a thing like that even doable? i mean if the entire team is focused on the new game which is demanding more and more time/effort, i think that even money can’t multiply the hours in a day, right?
And still i believe that something like “we are working on duelyst but development will be reaaaal slow” plus a bone here and there like “we are fixxing some thing, we have a pve story mode in the works” (im just making things up) will be more than welcomed by anyone, i prefer even to be “being played” at this point but at least to have hope nonetheless.
Can a game be back in a Early access status? do we have any example of that? not like a reworking or reborning (star platinum is tempting but a double razor edge in any ways, don’t like it) but more of a “we know the situation is bad but we can make things better with the right time and founds”
@ThanatosNoa Thank you again and i believe you have not to answer anymore (i mean, i’m not asking you to answer XD) at this point i’m back on the “just talking for the sake of it”, i guess i will be left alone here, not even a day and i already bothered any user left XD but if someone still want to give me his 2 cent i’m here.
Don’t know if it’s possible or already bannable, but can you explain? i didn’t partecipate directly on the kickstarter and any thing i know is from others “review, comments opinions” but never saw anything directly addressing that, i’m genuinely interested because it will put some perspective on the current/future population of the game itself, ofcouse if we can maintain a proper language, first and most importantly is for this topic to stay opened as much as possible, even if we just “talk without going anywhere” i really like it and helps to maintain the focus on it.
Edit : Well im digging through the kickstarter comment section and things escalated badly
I’d like to discuss some of the points on the kickstarter section but i believe it will turn into a flamepost, what you guys think?
Eh, discuss away, some are more jaded and over it at this point than angry, we won’t bite, these are simply questions we’ve answered before that come up every few months.
Niche game with even more niche art by released by no name studio with marketing and buzz equal to what you’d expect from a small indie kickstarter project such as this, in other words none.
Fun little game at the start that really shouldn’t be criticized for not being as popular as it never was going to be in the first place, but that said massively disappointed in devs who lost touch with their fan base and failed at communicating so badly that eventually the best form of feedback turned into saying as little as possible.
The game was fun for me, and still is for some, but expecting any more development or money into it is incredibly niave in my opinion.
hi guys, just wanted to share some recent news about another bamco game that i’m playing:
it’s soulcalibur. it got greenlight for new characters, balance changes, and possibly introduction of new mechanics. The duelyst community isn’t as large or as recent as SCVI, but it’s nice to know that smth like this is possible.
@isbee Do you mean, you paid for the physical art book and you never received that?
@eurasianjay i suppose you were very close to it in the beginning, any chance for more info about the draw 1 card instead of 2 change? read somewhere that was a crucial point for most of the players and was never discussed properly.
And other things like the “we are going free to play” without notice anyone, is this correct? i mean, there was a “long silence” and then from the nowhere just they announced it? or things went differently?
The more i read through the comment section on the kickstarter and the more seems that things keep repeating themselves, but i just don’t know if we are talking about 20 people who got “unlucky” or a bigger case.
Seems too that even who asked a refund got nothing at all, and i can see why they now have Bandai Namco and this new publisher for godfall too, using again a platform “from the users” isn’t a choice anymore.
I’m starting to believe that i, like others, were just blinded by a very shiny game, without noticing the bad things that lies behind.
I actually missed out on the kickstarter by a few weeks, but there was another time where players could back a tournament prize pool…matcherino or something like that…it was a long time ago. Anyway, one of the levels included the artbook. It was just a couple months later that the artbook was officially scrapped. Got an email from ol’ Keith personally to tell me that I would be otherwise compensated with swag. It was disappointing. The swag was card skin codes and a couple other things that amounted to trinkets, really.
Shiny game is the only thing that matters now, IMO, I would not call you ‘blinded’. Whatever this game could or should have been hardly matters when we have perfectly playable and beautiful game now. Who of the new players should care about the history of miscommunications and ugly stuff? I don’t think anyone should. Even me, a veteran player who was hit hard personally during the BN merge, doesn’t care about that anymore, jokes aside.
Just play the game if you like it, and don’t even start digging for ugly stuff to become disappointed, that’s my advice.
That’s pretty harsh. After all the same people who did all “the bad things” produced this game which is great to play. It is never black and white, always a more complicated matter
Mistakes were made. And hopefully they learn from them. But I also find it counterproductive holding them over their head all the time.
Not that it really matters here. Either they have some resources free for Duelyst at some point or not. We will see But the game offers still so much fun, especially if you were gone for some years
@isbee Thanks for the answer, guess it’s even “better” because the trend seem to continue nonetheless
@alplod You are right, ofcourse if someone wants to play should just play, hystory doesn’t matter anymore.
But i am very interested exactly in this, sounds weird maybe but this is what “triggers” me the most.
In the thread near to this hey namco… an user asked :
To which Thanatos answered (btw thanks again to be here thanatos, means alot)
And that’s why, at least for me, it’s really important now to know what happened “before” the duelyst we know today, if i see the same things happen again and again, why should i have any kind of faith or hope? I can anyways play the game but with the right “mindset” in it, knowing all of that makes me more “conscious” about the future of duelyst.
And i can think twice before investing money or time again in other projects from them.
like @eurasianjay said :
I guess it’s very naive, before any of this i just thought that chances were less than zero but now it’s not even about any chances at all.
By that i mean that showing a “behaviour” that doesn’t change even in years, instead it became even “worst”, if new players come in things will just turn in the same way.
On the official response in the reddit duelyst thread the first post is :
walker_paranorIGN: Tayschrenn 75punti 4 mesi fa
I appreciate the update, and your answers are more or less the conclusions that the community has come to already.
What shocks me is the fact that CPG is surprised at all that so many players feel left in the dust. I really don’t want to be negative because I still really love this game, but that’s absurd. If RHacker really had to bring this stuff up to you guys, then CPG really has stopped caring about this game at all. Because all it would take is a quick glance at reddit or the forums to figure this out. Which means that no on at CPG has even bothered to take a look at how the community is in the past year.
It’s a response but it’s a pretty tone deaf one. This isn’t necessarily directed at you, but CPG as a whole. I know you’re a good guy and probably doing what you can to keep things running over there.
The entire discussion is very very interesting
JuveyD[S] 28punti 4 mesi fa
Hey walker_paranor, thank you for your response. No need to preface by saying you don’t want to be negative, I want the community to be open with their thoughts so I can directly address them. I think your points are valid.
I’d like to respectfully challenge the assertion that we “really don’t care about Duelyst.” While I understand why you are interpreting this situation that way, I know from first hand experience that it is far from the truth. Hopefully I can shed a bit of light here.
To begin, I am admitting our inaction was a mistake. It wasn’t a mistake that stemmed from us not caring. We had several initiatives lined up in an effort to grow the Duelyst base. We didn’t want to “jump the gun” and make a post like this while we were still trying to fulfill these initiatives. However, by the time they didn’t pan out, we had already been quiet for quite sometime.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s easy to point fingers, i know very well that one single persone who is writing a response, isn’t the culprit or the reason why “all went bad” but we can just answer to him “them” ;
admitting the fault and phrasing it to say essentially that they prefer to stay silent instead of telling the truth isn’t a good thing to do, it shows me again that things will not change.
JuveyD[S] 8punti 4 mesi fa
We didn’t want a post like this to suggest we were giving up. But as my letter openly acknowledges, this was a mistake. Me explaining this isn’t an attempt to defend that position. As I say in the closing statement of this post, we have learned a lot from this.
Again please, im not talking about Juvey directly, it’s really important to me to let others know that.
Anyways, they learned a lot from it and they keep the radio silence once again? it makes nosense at all, after all that time, the only thing they could do is a reddit post to say “sorry we moved on new project, servers are up, after godfall we will be back”
They learned nothing while the silence was ongoing? so the first poster that assumed “no one even went into the forum” was right? i mean, i’m assuming that even for that official post, they somehow reasoned upon before making it, still they preferred to just cut things off entirely?
Not saying that they lied about “working on things to make it right but realised it wasn’t enough” but it just doesn’t add up on what they had done after that, still they didn’t talk at all with the community and by saying that “we learned alot” but stopped again to communicate with us it’s just a countersense.
Like we are back at square one.
Ideas and suggestion were always anywhere for what i understand but none were discussed or taken in consideration at all.
Some things in the past can’t be fixed at all, they are just gone , but they can still do something in the present and laying a foundation for the future but not with this behaviour/attitude.
Edit : @boronian Hi again ! and thanks for the warm welcome on the discord! i just read you after i send this message, sorry if i’m hars, again, im not pointing finger on anyone “in here” really, without any of you this discussion/topic will not even exist at all.
I started this topic “just to talk and maybe someone will suggest something to at least be taken into consideration” but i’m really interested in learning as much as possible on Duelyst and CPG.
I still believe that with a full overview of the situation, something can be done but if we as players, users, people are just passively waiting for it , game will just die in the same silence that has always accompanied it .
You complain about silence. What more, what type of stuff do you expect to be told about?
The current situation is pretty clearly explained. Maybe a bit later than ideal but still explained.
All work on Godfall and Duelyst may only be looked after Godfall is done.
Bandai partnership makes things less flexible. Adding that with lack of staff makes even minor updates not possible.
Nothing to be revealed on Godfall. Don’t want to reveal stuff that gets hyped because it makes it harder to scrap and change stuff. So things not set in stone, early in development. Things likely only revealed closer to release. So likely a long time to wait for Godfall.
Would you rather someone reporting like:
Week 1: Working hard but nothing to be revealed.
Week 2: Working hard but nothing to be revealed.
The response from Juvey is, quite frankly, a formulaic PR response. I can’t help but get the impression that he’s not admitting that CPG has given up developing Duelyst, so that people will keep spending money.
@humancalc Hi, i’m not complaining but i can see like i am too, doesn’t matter but i’m talking about a bigger picture, the silence it’s really important ofcourse but the entire behaviour is what i’m talking about, months without any kind of words, first when something went wrong in the kickstarter both in terms of rewards and duelyst beta changes, then when they noticed a declining and choose to not talk about it.
Game is fantastic, i’m currently playing it, anything they have done is for a working product that can last forever, their capabilieties in developing mechanics, graphics, expansion are not even in discussion in here, really, just to be clear, we can disagree that X cards are wrong or something like that but it’s not a “bad behaviour” that needs to change, that’s “balancing and fixing” and is a entirely different thing.
But you said that the current situation is pretty clearly explained, but it is?
That’s the only thing in the entire thread where we can find just a little bit of what happened in these months, the opening of the thread talks about the “common questions” and ofcourse that’s important too but what happened? they had some initiative that didn’t pan out and that’s all, ofcourse people start seeing things and making assumption but now they have some sort of reference, like mobile port was on the table even on the kickstarter campaign, but what kind of initiatives where in place?
Becouse we got nothing, literally and that’s concerning, what happened in all of that time?
Mobile port? expansion? balancing? fixs? a single new card? like the previous user said “better tell something bad than nothing at all at any given time”.
I believe that even just make a montly post about some little changes here and there , would have kept the light on duelyst and i mean a “good light”.
You say even that “maybe a little later than ideal” but we are not talking about " a little later" but bear with me, ofcourse i think that too much time passed but that is not the point! The point is, again, what are they doing now and what they made during that time.
We can’t know how things works on that level but we can assume (presume) what you said, ofcourse but that is the current situation they choose to be, and that’s why i’m worried. Things can be different just if they wanted to, not saying that now the game will be better or massive amount of people would be in. Just different in a positive way.
@halcyon98 Yes i believe it too, and that’s “normal” i guess, i mean, why anyone would say that something is “dead goodbye” and i know that things is not black and white, i can even imagine that someone inside would scream to do “this instead of that” and at the end of the day, money and new prospects won.
From what i learned i see that they didn’t “come clean this time” instead i only see false hopes at this point, and i don’t know about the “people will keep spending money” maybe we have the servers still up thanks to someone that somehow succeeded in doing so.
I suggested stupid things, i guess anyone can do better than me, really, but more important for me is understand what happened and what people thinks about it, people that are still here!
And what i wish they would do isn’t something that could happen now, would be counterproductive for them.
This is not quite related, but riding the developerOPINION wave, have you found any explanations or hypotheses as to why Duelyst didnt thrive stronger? I ask because Kolos claims it was 1draw or something, whereas I, which joined after 1draw, thought it was more because more or less every expansion (this is not intended to be snarky i swear) gave me a new ptsd. I cant quite tell. Have you any ideas?
While I wouldn’t pin the failings on something like 1 draw exclusively, there is an argument to be made that duelyst moved in a direction trying to compete with /get traffic from HS instead of being original, which 2 draw undoubtedly was.
The split after beta was arguably one of the largest reasons for player divides at that point of time. Now the game had a LOT of other faults but and personally while I don’t strongly miss 2draw specifically, I do see why it alienated so many back then.
I would actually like to talk about some of the things I noticed sometime later since it would provide insight on our challenges towards card game development (hopefully in a more playerlike tone, keeping it “developer heavy” would suffer a high-horse stigma I’m afraid).
But to give you a quick answer: we tried many things, many things simply did not stick.