Duelyst Forums

A problem with Bloodsurge

Bloodsurge is a simple yet interesting mechanics, which provides a trigger for abilities in this game.

However, a few generals cannot take full advantage of Bloodsurge, because their BBS can be used only under specific conditions. If I’m not mistaken, Ilena and Cyphiron are the only two generals who can use their BBS only when the opponent has a minion on the board, which is a major disadvantage. In case of Ilena, the minion must even be nearby!

I’m not sure this is intended, it really feels as something which was overlooked. So, a few questions for you:

  1. Are Ilena and Cyphiron the only two generals with this problem?
  2. Do you think it’s a problem? Would you fix it?
  3. If you wanted to fix it, what would you do? Make the BBSs usable without a target or suggest a small change to them?
  1. Umm, Kaleos?? (Well it target friendly units and sure Songhai can change bbs to PF using Geomancer, but Kaleos normal bbs still conditional)
  2. For Kaleos and Cyphiron, yes. Until now, i still want Kaleos bbs reworked. It’s the weakest bbs imo amongs all General. Even Cyphirion is better.
  3. Ilena is already annoying, it’s look weak but annoying, she doesnt need a fix. I cant think of any better solution for Cyphiron, perhaps a permanent -1atk instead of temporary -2atk??. And the last, Kaleos, i hope his bbs can teleport ANY minion so it will be useful for control board.
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I’m unsure about Kaleos, @kingw may have something to tell about his BBS. Anyway, what I can say is that his BBS has no problem with Bloodsurge: you need a minion on the board both to have Bloodsurge enabled and to trigger the BBS.

Cassyva and Sajj require enemy minions.

@reignzu if you just mean conditional, you’re also forgetting Ziran, Argeon.
Kaleos doesn’t need that buff, he would be broken as hell. Ilena could really use some change or support, though.

I don’t think it’s a problem because Blood Surge isn’t critical to the game and can be triggered even if the use of your bbs has no effect.

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Sajj does not require enemy minions, but you’re right about Cassyva.

I believe BBSs should always be usable when available, possibly causing no effect when the conditions of the BBS are not met, e.g., no enemy minion on the board. This way, all the generals would have a fair treatment when it comes to Bloodsurge.

Ah my mistake, I thought you meant in order for the BBS to be useful. Yeah, I wouldn’t mind it if Cass/Ilena/Ciphyron could cast their BBS just to cast it if no enemy minions were on board. Small buff that’s totally reasonable.

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You are slighty wrong Cass requires “a minion” and it is why her bbs is way better than say Ilena or Sajj. The new generals need something especially ilena need something similar like you point out.

I think Shidai is a general that needs a rework. Her ability involves too much RNG making it so that her ability is only good for spell proc which becomes pointless if you don’t have the right minion on the board let alone any minions at all.

I was referring specifically to which generals are required to have a minion on board, not ranking them on most specific. Besides, as we’ve seen with Kaleos and Starhorn, a restrictive BBS isn’t the only thing that can hold a general back from greatness.

Ilena’s synergy cards are notably weak. She just needs to find her Falcius/Iris Barrier/Decimus/Flamewing. Although just buffing the BBS off the bat wouldn’t be unwarranted

Really unconditional are only Vaath, Starhorn, Lilithe, Zirix, Sajj, Shidai, Brome, Faie and Kara. So only 9 out of 18 BBS.

Not counting Reva and Ragnora here because without a free tile their BBS doesn’t work.

Why count Kara but not Sajj?

Isn’t Ilena’s bbs got support already?
Iceshatter gauntlet, and shatter?
It really good for control, well the “nearby enemy” seem weak, but stun is a strong effect. I think that’s why dev decided that.

Ilena is the weakest general in the game, and her support cards aren’t nearly enough to make her anywhere close to competitive. That’s the point I’m making.

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Would that mean Zirix,Lilthe,Brome fall in the same category as Reva and Ragnora? So it is really Vaath,Faie,Kara,Shidai and Starhorn but Kara,Shidai and Starhorn have some limitations which make using them all the time wonky. So the only “really” unconditionally bbs are Faie and Vaath.

No, because even if all tiles are filled you can still play Lilithe, Brome and Zirix’s BBS’.

Yeah, because the positioning is random. It turns out that finding all the cases is harder than expected, maybe we should create a post with a full summary for the 18 generals :wink:

My bad you guys are talking in terms of blood surge activating/bbs working. I leaning towards usefulness as well in the picture.

Anyway it is good to mention so people have good understanding especially why faie is so stupid at times. Faie and Vaath surrounded their bbs works,If their hand is full their bbs works,No minions their bbs works. Every-time you hit the bbs button you get value from the bbs.

On topic blood surge synergy shouldn’t really matter but you see what from what i posted above is the issue. It is value game and the more usable your bbs is the better the general will be, one step towards that is pressing bbs button always triggers blood surge for everyone. Ziran had the worse bbs in the game Ziran needs a minion AND it needs to be damage two conditions to be met to use her bbs. I don’t know people remember but they changed the bbs to heal enemy. Every bbs other than Faie has downside( Vaath issue is proximity) while that what is makes the game fun when you can do small things to even the playing field you should.

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Now i think about it again, yeah… Isn’t it useless when summon bloodsurge minion, and your General’s bbs can’t be triggered with the example of ilena and cyph? :thinking:
Hmmm… I think blood surge isnt meant to be for every Generals. And depends on the surge effect too, some support certain general, sme are not.

The solo decks that are in duelyst (excluding magmar) are fair enough to play against so unless you’re playing ciphy hwose gameplan is to steal everything, then you should be ok.

  1. In terms of relying on opponent minions to cast, yes they are the only ones with that problem. In terms of being reliant on enemy minions to be fully effective, no. Sajj and, to a lesser degree, Cass also have that issue.

  2. I wouldn’t call this a problem. For Ciphyron, his playstyle is dependent on stealing enemy minions so neither of the blood surge minions in vet would suit his playstyle. Ilena suffers more since Hydrogarm is a great way to stun stuff, but since Vanar already has so many ways to control the board, it would be crazy if you didn’t have some other way to neutralize that heartseeker in the back. The neutrals exist too, but the benefits wouldn’t be worth the trouble of stunning or weakening vetruvian’s already weak minions.

  3. Though I don’t see this as being an issue, I sure wouldn’t care if CPG decided to make the BBS able to target friendly minions. I would still want Ilena’s BBS to be limited to cqc (#feelsvetruvain), but other than that I’m ok with making their BBS’s target friendlies.

I still firmly believe that Ilena shoul be able to target a nearby tile with the effect of “dispel then freeze minion” This would make her better, but not op.

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