Duelyst Forums

0 mana spells are mind boggling


i just cant wrap my head around how anyone could think that having cards that cost no mana is a good idea. its fair to say that most of them are bad and not worth using, but a few are simply too good to be free.

i’m going to come right out and say that almost all the 0 mana cards worth using are songhai: mana vortex, inner focus, and juxtaposition. HOW can anyone think that those spells are bad enough to not have a cost? all 3 of those spells are good at literally every stage of a match. not to mention that they’re food for chakri avatar, who makes those free spells even more worthwhile. with bloodrage mask you can easily destroy enemy artifacts for literally no cost and four winds magi can do the same thing AND it heals you for free at the same time.


Are we supposed to pay for our Mana Vortex? That defeats the purpose of the card. What you’re complaining about is Songhai in general, and there are certainly more frustrating factions to face. cough Falcius cough


how can anyone called “lyonaraddict” think vetruvian is worse than songhai? all the control in the world cant save you from blink, juxtaposition, and endless ranged units.

also, mana vortex does TWO things, not one. there are constantly people crying over kron on this forum and i can honestly say that not only do i not use it, but i cant even think of a single game that i’ve lost because of it. i cant even recall the last time i’ve seen one survive a single turn but i’ve lost dozens games because of songhai spamming free spells.


Well done, you’ve figured out some of Songhai’s key cards. Now that you know, learn to play with them in mind. Voila.


how nice that the faction that is arguably the strongest in the whole game has 3 “key” cards that are all free. too bad all of mine have those weird, antiquated things call “costs” attached to them.

can you tell me why they’re free?


They wouldn’t be nearly as good otherwise. Why even complain that mana vortex is 0 mana, anyway?


So we pay one mana to draw a card and decrease the cost of another spell, or something else? If you’re suggesting a card is too good, then what’s your alternative solution? Songhai is an aggro faction that tries to kill your minions with brute force and damage removal, and these cards just compliment that playstyle. This thread serves no purpose.


It seems that being vocal about how much you don’t like losing to something that isn’t the way you play is popular on the forums recently.


the point of the thread is to point out how dumb it is for a card game to have cards that have zero cost. if the effect of the card doesn’t make sense with a cost attached to it, its a bad effect.


They have a cost:
Inner Focus and Juxtaposition cost you one card.
Mana vortex doesn’t, but it costs the opportunity to have another card in its place for the current turn.


thats quite the reach you have. every card takes up a slot in your hand, that doesn’t justify 0 cost cards especially when you consider that those 3 cards i mentioned before are all useful at all stages of the game.


If you’re not going to concede that depleting your hand is a negative you are actively avoiding discussion that does not fit into your view, because depleting your hand is objectively bad.

500 error is nyxing my post


practically ALL cards do that. would you rather use a decent card that costs mana AND a slot in your hand or a really, really good one that DOESN’T cost mana?


I was specifically addressing this part:

You first say that having 0 cost card is a bad idea, and then, say that most of them are not worth using.
The problem is not with 0 cost cards, as you pointed out, most of them are not that great:
Beam Shock, sunstone bracers, flash freeze, polarity also cost 0 mana, and are not worh it because they still cost one card.

I can’t wrap my head around how anyone could think that having cards that cost no mana is a horrible idea, and then say that only 3 of them are worth using.
The problem is not 0 cost cards, but maybe some of the specific ones you mentioned.
I am pretty sure that there are Songhai cards that do not cost 0 that are a bigger problem than Mana Vortex(which might need a rework, but certain not of its cost).


Yeah, I’d like to cast a 0 mana nimbus. That’s not your argument though, your argument is against 3 cards, two of which individually have narrow uses and are built for.


those unusable cards that you mentioned are only so weak because they don’t cost mana. if they cost mana, they’d have to be buffed and then maybe someone would use them. basically, if any card that costs 0 mana is useable, its too good because good cards should have a cost (beyond taking a slot in your hand, since all cards do) because otherwise those 0 cost cards are just a way for the devs to throw players a bone; lyonar is too slow? how about a 0 cost battle pet with provoke? songhai needs more draw power and ways to backstab? about about some more 0 cost cards? its just bad game design when 0 cost cards NEED to be used to shore up holes in factions.


Nobody contends they need to be used, they’re used because they’re good. You’re looking at it backwards. It’s like saying buffs are incredible, so every vet deck has 3 first wishes, it doesn’t make sense.

And besides, if you’re so concerned with the fact these cards cost 0, let’s pretend they cost 1. Mana vortex is stil used because it now reads: thin your deck one card. Jux is still used because it is most useful by the time the board is developed and 1 mana is a substantially less important increment. Inner focus is still used at all stages because of the same thing, and in the beginning of the match? Fox on a mana tile, going either first or second, because it doesn’t matter, and the same exact scenarios play out. Floating mana is not so uncommon that you can even argue this. The only things affected are Four Winds bursts, and that’s assuming you’re playing him on your 4-mana turn (which is not particularly common anyhow).

Incoming moving goalposts.


saying that cards taking up a slot in your hand isn’t a cost isn’t moving goal posts, its common sense.

unless you’re being sarcastic, you just admitted that those 3 cards having an actual cost wouldn’t stop people from using them. congrats, you now know how to balance a card game: the right cost for the right effect.


You didn’t even read my post, did you?

Your argument is that these cards are broken because they cost 0. I contend that they would be exactly the same if they didn’t cost 0. You seem to be proven right because your original claim is proven wrong? I would recommend reading up on common logical fallacies, because that is explicitly moving goalposts.

Additionally, what sort of precedent would it set if the devs just changed things that are not broken, like we just showed? “Invest time in this game where the thing you like could change to an unknown degree at any point on time.” Yeah, good plan.


you attributed to them a cost and then said they’d still be used. obviously, giving them a cost would make them worse, but if people still use them like you said they would then maybe -just maybe- they wouldn’t be quite so broken as they once were?

maybe this is the first game you’ve ever played so you might not know this, but games have balance changes all the time.